On to Microsquirt ignition options
Turbo Mini Forums

I also need a solution to ignition. I had planned to keep the Rover components and form factor because I know it fits in the engine bay without too much modification, but there could be other reasons to not use the original Rover style coil in wasted spark configuration.

With the Microsuirt I need an external ignitor/module. DIY Autotune makes a 4 channel module and there are all sorts of Bosch modules(1 channel, 2 or 4) and third party modules.

Or I could use a logic level driven set of coils. Anyone have any photos of the LS1 "coil near plug" design installed in an A series engine bay? There may be limited room to mount a set of 4 coils.

Or a photo of a COP A series implementation?

Terry

Edited by tmsmini on 5th Feb, 2014.

Paul S did, but the pics dont seem to be working at the moment.

it would be easy enough to stick some BIP373's ( think thats the number) in a plastic box and use them to drive the existing rover coil.

I've used the LS style coils on 3 of my engines:







The old photos no longer work because a change to my webspace.

You will need to wire them wasted spark with the Microsquirt though. That may raise issues that I'm not aware of.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

http://www.jbperf.com/

Great, thanks for the photos.
I also found this:


coil with ignitor built-in on this site:
http://www.efi-parts.co.uk/index.php?productID=121
and this thread has some info as well:
http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.php?p=vt&tid=549050

Thanks again
Terry

looks like stevieturbo found the integrated coil/ignitor a few years ago on a different forum...did you ever use it?

So this one from various VW and other cars looks like a good fit:


Thank you Jean for pointing it out to me.

The only problem is finding the connector in the states. These look like the right one:
6 way connector - one from the UK and one from Aus
http://www.efihardware.com/products/1597/6...gniter-plug-kit
http://www.m-cal.com/Products/MC04-32941/6...-Coil-Connector
but still none I can find in the US.
Terry

Re. the plug, hard to tell from the photo of the coilpack but I wouldn't be confident the one's you have linked would be correct for a VW part from personal experience of another VW part (or at least a very common fitment on VWs).

Graham and I are using Mass Air Flow meters (not for fuelling, just for measurements), a particular one that is very common across the VW/Audi/Seat range of diesel engines and although it's 5 pin connector looked like the common "oval" design, it wasn't. None of the usual suspects over here (including M-Cal) had the right one.

We ended up getting the connector parts from VW main agents....

Not the sort of thing I would have expected them to stock - I thought they would only sell a whole loom at vast expense - but they do sell the housings and pins for repairing looms.

Worth a thought if you have a friendly VW/Audi/Seat agent nearby (I'm not sure how common they are in the USA).


EDIT - probably worth adding that the MAFs (although we bought non-genuine) were sourced under a Bosch part number so we had a reasonable expectation they would take a standard Bosch connector but it appeared that VW had specified their own one for Bosch to use. It may just be unique to the MAFs and the coilpack connectors may be more standard, but something to be wary about if you have to import with all the extra associated costs.

Edited by Rod S on 6th Feb, 2014.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Understood Rod. Pictures are hard to positively identify.
I did find this one on Autozone which is a large autoparts supplier in the US:


It is from this car:
2006 Volkswagen Golf 2.0L SFI SOHC 4cyl

I am sort of assuming that if they have the coil they ought to have the connector, but I may be disappointed.

It would still be nice to find specification and pinouts for it. But a VW factory manual should have a wiring diagram.
Terry

Terry,

From my experience, if the latest one (above) is the connector and listed against a VW car, rather than against a Bosch number, I would say it has a lot better chance of being the right one.

And if the coilpack is also listed against the same car then you're 99% there.

Wiring diagrams for the pinouts should be readily available, worst I've had to do in the UK is buy a copied CD/DVD of the factory manuals off eBay for about £2 ($3).

EDIT - bit missed.

Edited by Rod S on 6th Feb, 2014.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Looks like I need to try VW as both auto parts suppliers I tried on the way home from work did not even have it listed.

They have the coil but not the connector.
Update it appears the connector is part number:
Connector Part # 1J0-973-726

I did find it listed at a VW dealer in Kansas and on another website. I ordered two..here's hoping they come someday

Edited by tmsmini on 7th Feb, 2014.

That part number looks good, on Google UK it comes up as a VW 6 way connector housing.
Also a very similar number to the 5 way one Graham and I needed (1J0-973-775A).
If VW sell it like the 5 way one, it will only be the housing, you will need to buy the female "pins" and seals seperately but on the 5 way one, they turned out to be standard junior timer (ie, injector etc. connector) parts.

EDIT - typo

Edited by Rod S on 7th Feb, 2014.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

In case anyone else is interested this is what I found on the coil so far:
BERU Part Number S3-07060-00012
INTERMOTOR DISTR Standard Part No: UF484
BECK/ARNLEY 178-8325 Ignition Coil
VW 06A 905 097
Reference PART NO.: 06A905097 06A 905 097 06A905104 06A 905 104

Year Make Model Engine
2001 Volkswagen Beetle 2.0 L4
2001 Volkswagen Beetle 2.0 L4
2002-2005 Volkswagen Beetle 2.0 L4
2001 Volkswagen Golf 2.0 L4
2001 Volkswagen Golf 2.0 L4
2002-2006 Volkswagen Golf 2.0 L4
2001 Volkswagen Jetta 2.0 L4
2001 Volkswagen Jetta 2.0 L4
2002-2005 Volkswagen Jetta 2.0 L4

Connector
Part # 1J0-973-726

The auto references are to the US models, but some said the Bora is similar to the Jetta. There are some differences in the engines for the same years, but it appears the 2 liter used this coil in the US market.

Would still like to get the pinouts and specs for the coil.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

On MSExtra I found a link to the Hueco site and using their VW cross reference I found this. It is attached. It may be old, but seems to be the same model.

And the prices in the US vary from $300 to $45. I got one off ebay for $45...

Attachments:

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Edited by tmsmini on 7th Feb, 2014.

So I am assuming with 4 ignition inputs, this could be triggered sequentially, but also in wasted spark by linking inputs?

My lack of knowledge is starting to show...

http://www.jbperf.com/

Purchased another connector from a VW dealer today, US $10. It will take a day or two to get here. So US $45 for the coil and $10 for the connector. I have extra pins and seals for the other JPT connectors.

That's a very good price, best I could find over here is £40 (so about $65?) for the coilpack. Connector I haven't asked yet but the 5 way one was only £3 from a VW main agent so probably similar for the 6 way but, overall, a nice price for anyone over here wanting to run fully sequential ignition without using COP or CNP.

(I'm assuming it's a logic level pack from the 6 pins).

Unfortunately on my standard MS2 I've already got one of the required extra CPU pins in use for something that I don't really want to move over to the IOx just yet so I'll be sticking with wasted spark for the time being.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

It is not perfect, but it looks like it will fit. I may need to make a mounting plate.
It is a bit bigger.

Attachments:

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Edited by tmsmini on 12th Feb, 2014.

Just spotted this on the MS-E site
http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=101&t=53071

If you go to pages 48/49 of the proposed manual it confirms the pinout of the plug is as expected.
Also the second post confirms the connector part number (but I guess you know that's right now anyway).


EDIT - I'd better add I only mention pages 48/49 for confirmation of the pinout of the 6 way plug, not the associated wiring diagram which is for a standard Microsquirt, not Jean's version.

(Having said that, the wiring shown for a standard Microsquirt confuses me, those additional pull-up resistors for sparks C & D imply it is a switching to ground trigger rather than switching on 5V...)

Edited by Rod S on 13th Feb, 2014.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

I like the VW logic level coil option. Much tidier than the LS coils which are a bit overkill to be honest.

Good find.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Rod,

The ignition channels C and D on the Microsquirt need the pull up because they use the LED outputs which are ground switching outputs. However, the code inverts the output compared to channels A and B so that all 4 ignition channels have the same polarity when used as per the manual.

Jean

http://www.jbperf.com/

Thanks Jean,

That now makes sense.

Hardware limitations I guess, another reason why the MSu code is different to the MS as, on an MS2-E, the additional outputs are taken before the LED ground switching "inversion".

I presume on your board, the pull-ups are included already and don't need to be added externally.


Leaving that aside, still interested to see how this multi coil VW thing performs. I should have one tommorow to play with but the connectors won't be until next week.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???