All I need now is a TIG welder...
Turbo Mini Forums

ok, it doesn't look it, but the middle branch is actually just under 1" shorter than the outers.
T2 Turbo will sit 'slightly' higher than if it was fitted to an adaptor plate - which means if i spend a little longer, I will get them equal and still have room for the turbo.
I'll be fitting O2 (lambda) bungs into the centre and 'clutch side' branch for efi development testing.
I should be able to make the exhaust manifold with three-off pieces of 180 degree 2" radius 321stainless tubing ($38 a piece) and around $60 in flanges of the same material.

Also 'Just' found some injectors that are the same flow as the ones i've discussed (and modelled above) but are 30mm shorter in the body - so much easier to fit!

Like i say - just need a Tig Welder now!!!

Just curious as to why the long inlet runners that loop round the back of the plenum?

Looks like someone has too much spare time at work

annoyingly (and gavin will agree) i had a tig but a cnut that used to be a friend fooked off with it. again cnut

I seriously doubt it!

Looks well dave,

you havent shown it but i know you wont have overlooked the issue of expansion on the exaust manifold face plate requiring parting joints

the issue of the tig welder, you can get the small portable ones up to 140 amp also doubles up as stick welder as well

including sholder strap for carrying

in the uk these are around 540 quid dont know what in the states?

used one for years and they are great!

The expansion thing is a can of worms ben...

I can see reasons for not splitting, and resons for splitting.

I won't be buying an invertor TIG - I'm going to be buying a pukka unit, with varable frequency startup for welding all grades of ally and stainless properly.

$1800 for the 180amp decent entry-model. UK Equivalent would be around £1800!

a lot better dave, you may as well get the best!

Almost looks like my old setup there, what kind of a throtle body are you going to use, dual or singel? Wich EFI are you planing on?

http://62.101.36.209/rejsa/rejsa/userimage...-12-05-inj1.jpg

http://62.101.36.209/rejsa/rejsa/userimage...-12-05-inj2.jpg

Edited by tellskog on 5th Dec, 2005.

nice setup what did it run like (take it no mods to bulk head looks very compact)

love that straight cut scream!!!
______
/___|_____
_ (@)___(@)

Hey, First time i've seen that setup!

Did it ever run?

Looks like it needed a bulkhead box AND a weber box?

Yes it was a runner. Up until a rockerarm got broken and the intake valve was crocked. On further inspection then piston number 2 had a crack in it. But it was very nice and driveable car whit god midrange. If the faliure has anything whit this fuel robbing business or just plane fatigue I don't know. When this setup was made I kinda took what I had and put it toghter. Never heard about this robbing thing until I register here. So now I'm puting togher my secund efi setup whit a little more refined bits and bolts, so i'm very exited to see how it will turn out.

Bulkhead and the weberbox cutouts was made yes.

Good luck whit your plans Dave.

Edited by tellskog on 5th Dec, 2005.

Well so long as you have all those bits on the shelf, we may have a solution to it in the future!

Did you have any (exhaust) manifold cracking issues? Did you make it out of 321, 304 or plain steel?

No cracking issues on exhaust manifold. It was made out of plane steel. The new one I made of some expensive steel don't know what number, whit a little bit larger diameter.

I like the look of Tellskog's set up. Anyone have any thoughts on the advantages and disadvantages of the two approaches, (Dave's and Tellskog's)? Looks like a webber style TB, would using these injector locations rather than those next to the ports mean the injectors are too far from the ports for direct injection?

I would only need one set of injectors I think as I am extremely unlikely to exceed 160 bhp on the bored 850 (936) turbo motor...


Peter

Edited by MAGA7INE on 12th Jan, 2006.

Peter

Editor

MAGA7INE
Seven Magazine
The brand new quality Classic Mini Tech and Journal
Issue 1 out late 2027.

dave's is direct port....

Tellskog's is wet manifold.

I'm going wet manifold as its easier imo.

Alex

AlexF

Peter

Editor

MAGA7INE
Seven Magazine
The brand new quality Classic Mini Tech and Journal
Issue 1 out late 2027.

They both look to have injectors in the same (ish) position???
Or am i missing something?

Edited by TurboDave16V on 12th Jan, 2006.

Ah - just seen injector bosses in tellskog's weber throttle body (ish) unit...
But i can see injectors at the manifold face also...

Plenums all the way IMO... I'll not be bothering with dual throttle discs.

Dave,
It appears that you're attempting to radius the runners into the plenum. Is that the case?
I had that idea because I thought it might allow a good smooth flow transition, but I was recommended against this idea by a couple people I trust.
The idea is that you can get more air into the runners w/ velocity stacks. In addition to directly above the opening, the VS's actually allow it to pull in air from around corners and have the advantage of smoothing out the airflow.
Basically, you want the runners protruding into the plenum w/ the ends being radiused outwards. How far in, and the radius can apparently affect the powerband and is part of the tuning.

-Tyler
DO NOT TOUCH MY HORNS OF DOOM!

looking good dave,

tellskog interesting setup, whats planned for the new EFI install?

Team www.sheepspeed.com Racing

arr I know see the other injectors lol

Alex

AlexF

My take on Dave's design is to give a long induction length, to help off boost power?

I understand what you mean about radiused entry to the plenum, but I would have thought that would mean the cross section of the runner increasing into the plenum, from Dave's drawing this does not appear to be the case artificially (e.g. with purposely machined/flared ends)

Indeed, when I build mine(non turbo), I'm going to make as long of a runner as feasable. But I can't say exactly why runners that pull from the middle of the plenum is better, just that I've been told that several times from several people independently. One guy does motorcycles, one guy does Subarus, and another guy has built stupid fast snowmobiles. I also ran across this recommendation on the web a few times.
On the other hand, GM's LSx engine family seems to do quite well with Dave's style of manifold, so I suppose we'll see.
As to being forced induction or not, I don't think it matters. All that really happens w/ a turbo is you increase the density of air in the system. It's really not correct to say the turbo is "pushing air into the engine". You could say the turbo is pushing air into the intake system, but from there the engine is still pulling the air. It just happens to be more dense. So most of the design criteria for the intake manifold is the same.

-Tyler
DO NOT TOUCH MY HORNS OF DOOM!

Edited by evolotion on 14th Jan, 2006.

turbo 16v k-series 11.9@118.9 :)

Denis O'Brien.