Oem style in tank swirl pot /fuel pump
Turbo Mini Forums

Does anyone have experience of using one of these kinds of pumps? We're talking injected race car with a custom tank here so needs to be bob on with fuel supply round long corners etc.. I'm tight for space for fuel tank so hoping to have an in tank setup of some kind instead of an external swirl pot.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=htt...%2F142694439509

If the tank design is poor, then no, that will still allow problems.

Design a good tank, and yes in-tank pumps can make things a lot easier and neater

Design a bad tank...and doesnt really matter where the pumps are, it's still a bad tank.

So ensure the fuel will always aim down to a small reservoir from where the pump draws or resides, and is encouraged to fill as fast as possible. So a big low rectangular tank would be crap, a narrow square tank would be better, etc etc. Small tall round tank even better, etc etc

And usual baffles, foam as needed.

9.85 @ 145mph
202mph standing mile
speed didn't kill me, but taxation probably will

Yeh, this is my issue. I only have room for a long flat tank. I think what I will do is use one of these pumps to feed a swirl pot under the bonnet somewhere. I just don't really like the idea of putting fuel stuff in vulnerable places so will have to do some thinking of how I can keep it out of harms way.

is this for the metro? on the racers they used to have a swirl put, usually in the spare wheel well, fed by a couple of facets.

I'm wonderig if a "baffled" in tank pump could be done easily, essentially a "cup" with he pump in with an open top and a coule of smallish holes at the bottom, the return would need to dump into it though.

How about using a VW post-84 seperate swirlpot like you see halfway this page:
https://clubgti.com/forums/index.php?thread...upgrade.283704/

Doesn't seem to big but you do need a secondairy pump

Edit: Fixed the url

Edited by Yo-Han on 24th May, 2018.

Dazed and Confused....

personally I'd do some sort of swirl pot assembly perhaps even dual pumped and all in-tank. using a modern plastic swirl pot an siphon tube say from an rx8, probably isn't that hard to implement. if you want a pickup pump get the assemblies from a 5 series BMW.

I don't know if I trust the hype, but holley hydramat may be an elegant solution.

turbo 16v k-series 11.9@118.9 :)

Denis O'Brien.

personally I'd do some sort of swirl pot assembly perhaps even dual pumped and all in-tank. using a modern plastic swirl pot an siphon tube say from an rx8, probably isn't that hard to implement. if you want a pickup pump get the assemblies from a 5 series BMW.

I don't know if I trust the hype, but holley hydramat may be an elegant solution.

turbo 16v k-series 11.9@118.9 :)

Denis O'Brien.

Exactly what dimensions ?

These guys make fancy fuel cells, and oddly basic squares. You wouldnt quite need as much fuel flow as they offer though

https://www.aftermarketindustries.com.au/fu...tank-f1-1200-30

Or I've used this on a few cars. Custom cell, circa 40L with this sump on the bottom. A little taller would be better but this is the height it needed to be.



On one car it ran almost faultless until we ran the thing bone dry lol. We though the pump had died....except the tank was just empty lol.

Cell is just open, I think around 18" square or thereabouts and foam filled with that sump on the bottom. You could easily do the same but with a hanger and in-tank dropped down into the sump instead.

I actually changed my own tank at the start of the year to an intank setup using teh aftermarket industries triple hanger, and build a small sump onto the base of my tank for the pumps to drop into. Mine is a large rectangle, although I'd never do hard track use with low volumes of fuel anyway. I was space limited with sup height though as didnt want to modify the car
I did add a small collector inside the tank as well, and it also has internal foam

9.85 @ 145mph
202mph standing mile
speed didn't kill me, but taxation probably will

Yes, it's for the metro. I currently have the swirl pot in the spare wheel well but I'm going to remove all that and fit a diffuser in the back at some point so that limits me on space. The new beam will sit further forward and higher up and I'm hoping I can get the exhaust in there too somewhere (side exit) For speed events it's not so much of an issue as you only need a gallon tank but I'd like to use it on full circuits too and it uses about 1L a lap in current guise (potentially more with future engines) so want to maximise the space avalible for a bigger tank. Built in sumps and what not will just reduce capacity.

I was also looking at the weight issue of carrying an extra pump and swirl but really it's only a couple of kg.

9.85 @ 145mph
202mph standing mile
speed didn't kill me, but taxation probably will

trouble is the betty tanks are pretty much level with the floor of the car, and not very tall, 8" ish?

But you can't have a sump if the tank is already as low to the ground as it can go.

The base of the tank is the lowest part of the car ?

Do metros run the fuel tank underneath the vehicle ?

9.85 @ 145mph
202mph standing mile
speed didn't kill me, but taxation probably will

Side pipe is very easy. Couple of 45 degree bends and it will pop out in front of the rear wheel. I planned to put a steel tube through the sill but never it round to it.

Yes a metro tank is between the spare wheel well and the heel board.

I have a similar issue on an SD1 (long, wide flat tank) I’m building; factory tank needed (or spend lots of $ on a specific - the only one approved -foam filled fuel cell). I’m looking at building a swirl pot separate to the tank with the pot being fed by a small EFI pump from the factory tank, and another EFI pump from the swirl pot feeding the fuel rail, with the return going back to the pot, and the top-most outlet in the swirl pot returning into to the tank, feeding back into the line supplying the lift pump.

I’d like to see more Holley hydramat reviews from folks who’be had known starvation (from cornering surge on a track) issues and was 100% solved by the hydramat with no other changes.

Edited by TurboDave16V on 27th May, 2018.

Hydramat is a cool product...but expensive. And it has a service life. Probably long enough not to matter...but it's still there.

And still not totally convinced as to how good it would be with EFI pumps, given they just dont suck very well, so when things get low I reckon there could still be issues.

For most cars though a custom cell with internal setup shouldnt be that difficult.

When I had my tank made some 15-16 years ago, I had wanted a small sump on the bottom, but for some reason they just refused to do this. They did fit an internal collector and also lots of foam. And TBH it's never given any issue...but I also rarely ever run less than 25litres in the tank ( total 75 litre capacity )

But this year, along with a change to in-tank pumps I added a sump so the in-tanks could drop down into, and also a collector above this inside the tank, and of course the foam.
Mine is also long and rectangular.
Sump cant be any larger in my case due to frame the tank sits on and body of the car








Or another option to keep things tidy with a custom cell, but badly shaped tank. Is build the "surge tank" into the main tank so there are no external parts. A usual in-tank pump feeds the swirl and dumps internally and the only external fittings are for the main feed/return as normal again using an in-tank pump.

9.85 @ 145mph
202mph standing mile
speed didn't kill me, but taxation probably will

tank, within a tank setup

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.a...6&t=959035&i=20

9.85 @ 145mph
202mph standing mile
speed didn't kill me, but taxation probably will

I’ve this job to do on one of my 205’s. Here’s my plan.
Keep the standard tank and in tank pump, this does surge under about 1/2 full on track use.
Make a surge tank of approx 2-3L capacity that is sited in the engine bay, make it so it uses a second standard 205 drop in fuel pump unit, it’s up to the job flow wise and I’ve got plenty.
Feed the surge tank from the main tank pump, overflow from the surge tank goes back to the main tank.
Surge tank pump feeds to the injector rail with regulator, regulator return goes back to the surge tank.

Unless it's really for some extreme use, 2-3litres is pretty huge....

034 and Pantera offer a nice 1 litre setup for an 044. Because of how it goes together it has to be an 044 as it screws into the ends of the pump.

https://store.034motorsport.com/fully-enclo...-fuel-pump.html

http://www.panteraefi.com/NEW_Products.html#fuelefi

It can be mounted vertically or laid down flat. The base of the tank is a fuel inlet design that allows it to be flat, although I'd still prefer it to vertical.

But factor in just how much fuel your engine could consume whilst maintaining high g's where surge might be an issue with supply ?

How long would 1 litre last ? A long time in almost all cases.

9.85 @ 145mph
202mph standing mile
speed didn't kill me, but taxation probably will

That’s a neat looking thing. The only reason I was going to aim for 2/3L was due to the physical size of the standard fuel pump and carrier I was intending to use, I hear what you are saying though regards the practical volume it would need to be.

Actually, I got one of these for free:
http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/Crashe...3Njg2Nzk=/?ref=

Seems to do what Tom says(?)
Has a smaller capacity though
And I guess it needs a lift pump

There are several versions (pressure and flow)


Edit: to clumsy to add picture so added link

Edited by Yo-Han on 28th May, 2018.

Dazed and Confused....

I've seen a few of those with the pump hanging out.

Not a bad idea, although as most are Chinese made...that would worry me !
But they are a neat idea.

9.85 @ 145mph
202mph standing mile
speed didn't kill me, but taxation probably will