New to EFI conversion
Turbo Mini Forums

Hi guys, I have a stock 5-port classic Mini 1275cc engine running an original Lucas Distributor and an HIS38 carb. I am now thinking on converting it completely to EFI using a Megasquirt III. I'm new to the EFI idea and I'm currently doing a thesis on Engine Management, hence learning along.

I've been discouraged a lot to do an EFI conversion to a 5-port A series because of the problem of the Siamese Ports.

What do you guys suggest ? I'm not looking at power at this moment. All I'm after is a proper startup, and smooth drive so that I can learn the basics of EFI conversions and mapping.

Best Regards and thanks in advance

The MS3 and the 5 port are made for each other. The siamese port issues are easily dealt with. Have a read of this:

http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.php?p=vt&tid=541366

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Hi Paul, first of all thank you for the thread you linked. I read it and I understood some of it. Well I hear you're one of the best guys in these EFI conversions

So I have some questions that I need to ask:

1. Up until now I have only considered a single point injection like the kit SC components have. What are the advantages of doing a setup like yours with a mini mpi manifold with two injectors, one per inlet port... Assuming a naturally aspirated engine.
2. Secondly, how would you orientate the ECU ? Sequentially inject the injector when each oiston is in its untake stroke ?
3. What size of injectors ?
4. What size of throttle body ?
5. And how do you tune the engine without a dyno ? Some of my mates did conversions on other cars and what they did was to lift the car on stands and apply the brake with different pressures to reach different points of the map.

Regards

1. You can ensure that you are getting the correct amount of fuel going into each cylinder with a couple of widebands.
2. use a cam sensor.
3. std MPi injectors will do up on a standard 1275.
4. any 50mm tb will do.
5. drive the car on the road to set it up.

Have a read of this:

http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.php?p=vt&tid=408438

Edited by Paul S on 15th Oct, 2015.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

I understand you need to drive the car on the road to do some of the setup even when you have been to the rollers.

It must be very hard to map the higher end of the map? After spending most of the day at the rollers with mine even on autotune it was stepped up the map virtically.

I run a supercharger and I don't care the TB is on the wrong side.
VEMS + 12 PSI + Liquid Intercooler = Small Bore FUN!

On mine, the top end of the map is pretty flat. No wild changes in fuel required.

On road tuning is a two man job. One driving and the other making changes to the injection timing to equalise the AFRs whilst autotune does the business with the overall fueling.

A short drive to Stanford Hall in the 30 the other weekend with the laptop on my lap and we had made quite an improvement. You can't feel much of a difference with the way the car drives though

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Has anyone tried doing an mpi manifold with 4 injectors (2 on each runner) squirting sequentially ? (For a Naturally aspirated engine). I think this would relax more the injectors and maybe the size of injectors can be reduced

Yes:

http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.php?p=vt&tid=571531

You cannot reduce the size of the injector because you still need to fill a cylinder on the intake stroke.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

What size are the injectors ?

Its a really nice job I must say :)

I've just bought a megasquirt ms3x v3.0 today :) Now waiting for the fun to begin

By the way, what is the difference between ms3x v3.0 and v3.57 ? is it just the orientation of the board ? or does it have a functional difference as well ?

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Guys I'm doing the conversion on a naturally aspirated 998cc with sequential-staged injection. Can I get the code from somewhere ? I will be running Ms3x

Edited by Barrieri on 17th Oct, 2015.

In a few days you have gone from this:

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Of course Paul, I will, but I'm lacking both knowledge and time. At the moment I'm carrying out my thesis and a I have very little time for this project. However I intend to buy all the stuff needed during the winter so that in summer I'll begin the conversion.

My problem mostly is that I cannot understand the main concepts of injection. What I have understood so far is that I need both a crank and cam sensor for sequential injection. Now the cam turns 1 rev every stroke (ie. 4 revs per engine cycle). Thus if use only two injectors (one injector per runner), each injector has to squirt two times consecutively due to the siamese problem.

Am I getting this right ?

Edited by Barrieri on 18th Oct, 2015.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Hmm, you're right about the cam, I got confused. So like you're saying in the quote below. Then each injector has to squirt 1 long pulse per crank shaft rotation right ?

1 long pulse per cycle, 2 revs.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Exactly, injector 1 injects one long pulse during the first rev of the crankshaft and then injector 2 injects 1 long pulse during the second rev.

And this can be done with MS3X combined with 600cc/min injectors, right ?

Yes and Yes

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Thanks Paul . I will start buying all the staff and let you know when they arrive.

By the way, this is my Mini in its current state

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