Budget Turbo Port Injection
Turbo Mini Forums

We have already fuel injected my lads Mini 30:


The engine was built for turbo use with 9:1 compression, 274 cam, uprated clutch and 4 pin diff. Nothing fancy but should be OK for 100hp or so with low boost.

It uses the MPi inlet and a MS3X, fully sequential, timed injection with dual widebands.

So the next stage is to apply a turbo. I was originally planning on fabricating an inlet manifold with very long runners, but cost and expediency have overruled that idea.

In my opinion, the MPi inlet manifold is the best produced by BL/Rover. Longish runners and a decent plenum. Ideally the runners would be at least another 6 inches longer, but packaging restraints are the limitation.

So the plan is to adapt an MPi inlet manifold to our requirements. The first thing to do is to add injector pockets. A single injector per port is just not enough for a boosted application in most cases. Injectors large enough for maximum power would suffer at idle due to the low pulse width. So the optimum way to do it is to use a pair of primary injectors and staged secondaries coming in on boost.

One downside of the MPi inlet is that it will not fit with any of the usual turbo manifolds. So the plan is to use the MPi exhaust manifold, extended ala LCB style to a remote turbo over the transfer case.

The manifolds were acquired from ebay for £35. So a good start :)


I already have the injectors and fuel rail.

Time to start cutting the manifold to explore methods of making the parallel injector pockets

Edited by Paul S on 9th Oct, 2014.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

This should be interesting...
Any specific reason for going remote turbo? (to enable opportunity to use std manifolds?)

Good luck!

Dazed and Confused....

LCB style turbo manifold will yield considerable power gains according to my simulations. Time will tell.

Plus, in this case, it will be a lot cheaper/quicker to use the factory style LCB manifold than fabricating the whole thing as I have in the past.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

I'd like to see the inlet manifold when it's done. I'm using the SPI manifold and may need to add 2 more injectors (2+1 staged).

The other thing that will need changing is the throttle body. The MPi one is plastic and can't be trusted at boost.

Anyone know if the Rover 25/45/MGF throttle bodies are the same bolt pattern? Looks like they are but anyone got one to measure off?

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

they have the same bolt pattern.
the potentiometer is at a differend position and i'm sure the throttle cable linkage is differend

Thanks.

Looks like I may have to swap the throttle linkages over from the plastic one.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Interesting, I'll be following this.

I've got a couple of rover TBs if you need one.

now i feel like i can comment , watching with interest, do you have a turbo in mind? ive been watching the vnt vs twin scroll thread is that for this build?

Yes i moved to the darkside

Instagram @jdm_brett

Yes, this could well end up with a GT1749V on it. Actually more than likely.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Thanks Andy,

Have you got an aluminium 48mm one that opens fully.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Very nice clean install

That sir, is not rust, it is the progressive mass reduction system

http://aseriesmodifications.wordpress.com/

Yes. By full I assume you mean the throttle disk turns through 90 degrees. If so, pm me your address and I'll pop it in the post.

I think the guy at VMAX did an injection set up so he could back up his comparison figures against the injected supercharger kit they sell so might be worth a call to compare notes

Masturbation is not a crime its a hobby

Yesterday, I found myself telling Brett that he could achieve 100hp with a single 800cc/min in each port. That much is true.

I then suddenly thought "why am I doubling up on the injector bosses for the same hp target?" Hence some clarification needed

Basically, it is because I want to try the pulse per cylinder method and I already have a set of 4 600cc/min injectors. Although this is enough for 150hp, the manifold modifications would make it suitable for 200hp+ with 800cc/min.

On my original 998 EFi turbo, I used 4 MPi injectors for 120hp. That was 960cc/min per port. Although the idle was OK, the pulse widths were very short. This was using the single pulse for 2 cylinders method.

If you wish to use the pulse per cylinder method, then idle pulse widths are going to be very short with the bigger injectors. The problem with running low pulse widths is that the injector response can become non-linear depending on the injector. Although MS3 allows you to cater for this if you have the data, MS2 does not.

So, using 2 600cc injectors as primaries and the other 2 staged in under boost will allow me to use the optimum injection strategy and have injection capacity in hand if I want to up the boost.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Nice little TB arrived in the post from the very nice Mr Bellamy


A bit of work on the mill this afternoon to prepare the manifold for new bosses.


This is a bit drastic but I couldn't work out any other way of doing it.

Next job is to CNC Mill a couple of new bosses for 2 injectors per port.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Must have been sent it by a distant relative...

I've now milled the bosses:



Fitted to the manifold and fuel rail:



Fits together OK

Now need to build up courage to weld the bosses in

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

On 24th Oct, 2014 Paul S said:

Now need to build up courage to weld the bosses in

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

I'm very tempted to use that Durafix Easyweld that I've used on the other injection bosses. No distortion.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Just tack in place, then weld it using a small tungsten, welding the same path on each intake runner. There should be no issues of distortion. You have a mill, so a quick flash of the flanges to ensure they are flat would be cake.

Edited by TurboDave16V on 24th Oct, 2014.

Paul, not to be a kill joy but it looks like the throttle cable will fowl on the manifold, are you able to move it around to make it work?

Well spotted. We are going to have to fit a different quadrant to the TB.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

i found welding cast manifolds to be a breeze, and my tig skills are almost non existent
certainly easier than welding new port into 0.8mm thick end tanks on my radiator
getting and keeping it hot are the key i think

Yes i moved to the darkside

Instagram @jdm_brett