Tie bar droppers/ Anti-dive brackets?????
Turbo Mini Forums

Hi guys,

I searched TM and the 16VMC with absolutely no luck - not even a mention on this topic so I thought I'd start one

I am very interested if anyone on here has used them or had experience with them?

Cheers

Mike

are you getting confused with motorcycles? lol

there is apparently some on ebay

Edited by Brett on 13th Jan, 2014.

Yes i moved to the darkside

Instagram @jdm_brett

Yes you're right Brett (regarding your post before you edited it lol) - however I think Endaf Owens makes some!

Sorry, I didn't actually make it clear what I was asking.

I'm interested in the way it changed the behaviour of the car, particularly if any competitive racers on here have used them? I have read mixed views in competition suspension books regarding the benefits/drawbacks of them and was hoping someone might share their experience with them on a mini...

Edited by Mowen123 on 13th Jan, 2014.

Yes i moved to the darkside

Instagram @jdm_brett

It's the first time I've come across these.
I no they do the lower balljoint spacers to alter the roll centre but again get very mixed reviews , have the mig lads use and loved them the other hate !!! .
I no they use a similar design on the rear of grassers for the rear engined ones , they alter the angle either up or down on the front of the arm , on transfers weight to the rear for good traction then the other puts the weight forwards to make it handle

Yeah I've read a few of those, not very conclusive though I didn't think.
Yea and so I would hope they don't turn corners on the drag strip :0 haha.

Yes I have lower balljoint spacers. You saying half the Mig drivers love them and the other half hate...I think it's similar with regard to these Tie Bar droppers. Some people say they're brill and some people are strongly against the idea.

Are there any miglia drivers on here?

Edited by Mowen123 on 14th Jan, 2014.

Where are these for then?

Sorry not sure what you mean? ...What, where are they fitted?

Ahh the penny has just dropped I was having a dense moment.

Ron

Nearly £200 for the privilege of further stressing an already known weak point of the subframe. Can chalk me up as being a bit skeptical :)

turbo 16v k-series 11.9@118.9 :)

Denis O'Brien.

What is worth remembering with Miglias is that they have to compete within very tight regs. As a result, there are lots of these quirky ideas popping up all the time.

Because of this, there are lots of 'fashons' that go through the paddock. If someone starts winning, things get copied. Everyone was running ARBs with dampers a few years ago, and then the ball joint extenders.

My advice is to look elsewhere than motorsport for suspension upgrades. I would not for a second do what I have done on my hillclimber to a road car.

Fastest 998 mini in the world? 13.05 1/4 mile 106mph

www.twin-turbo.co.uk

Top post there Wil.

aha You won't like what they cost new then......£500 :0

Edited by Mowen123 on 15th Jan, 2014.

ok, well that's different then.

What race series are you running in? What are the regs? What experience have you got?

I'd start with the basic general setup (all adjustable) and see what it's like for you.

If then you want the car to do something it isn't (understeer, oversteer etc), and you can't achieve it with the standard arrangement, then start looking at things like this.

Fastest 998 mini in the world? 13.05 1/4 mile 106mph

www.twin-turbo.co.uk

Good advice there wil.

If I can add anything it will be , decide if you haven't allready what the car is going to be used for, the idea of just a race spec toy these days seams silly , make it eligible for something then you have some guidelines to aim for and a least it's worth something afterwards aswell.

Yes it's aimed at the Libre class for Hillclimbing in the 2014 season (providing I'm happy with the car when it comes to the time of competing). It will also be used at track days here and there.

I agree with what you said Wil, only problem for me is that I won't have the option of fitting a Tie bar lowering bracket if I decide I want to play around with the tie bar geometry at a later date. I have to incorporate some form of adjustment into the subframe itself as I'm running a custom subframe for my Honda lump. The reason I'm asking these questions now is because I am in the process of building a new subframe, so if I'm going to incorporate a system for altering the tie bar mounting location, I need to do it now while I'm still designing it. That way when it comes to hillclimbs/ track days, I can test, adjust, test, adjust etc etc without having to do a serious subframe overhaul each time.

Tricky one. But for my money I wouldn't bother.

Fastest 998 mini in the world? 13.05 1/4 mile 106mph

www.twin-turbo.co.uk

Is this any use:

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

It is indeed, thanks Paul. What do you use your car for? Do you think it helped?

It was a Miglia built by Endaf and co. that passed through without use. Didn't get to drive it.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Hmmm, I have no real world experience with anti dive..only theory that says a little is good, a lot will introduce many ill side effects.

What anti dive does in effect is that it prevents energy going into the front springs/cones under braking. This energy of course has to go somewhere else, guess what...your suspension arms! Rod ends amply sized under 'normal' conditions have been known to break when dailing in anti
dive...ooops. Another side effect of the suspension locking up under braking, is that braking/deceleration is actually reduced on bumpy surfaces. Thirdly all sorts of funky stuff with castor variation and bump steer CAN happen when dailing in anti dive. There's some great 3D modeling software out there that helps you choose your optimum in compromises....

When doing basic calcs the classic way, as a rule of thumb -10% to 30% anti dive is what works ok. I have no idea where the standard mini bottom arm inclination leads us in this respect

Some earlier discusions:

http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.php?p=vt&tid=340472

I was under the impression that dropping the front tie bar mounts was to prevent lift under acceleration rather than dive.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Dropping tie bar mounts leads to anti dive according to this dIagram http://performancetrends.com/Definitions/Anti-Dive.htm

Edited by Evoderby on 15th Jan, 2014.