Jean\'s new IOx-OEM board
Turbo Mini Forums

For those using MS2 for injection, especially siamese code injection, you will already be aware of Jean's original IOx board to increase the number of inputs/output to the MS2 CPU by using CANBUS.

There are at least three of us on this forum who use the original IOx over here in the UK.

The original IOx board has many options and, as a result, is quite large.

See here for the original, there are better descriptions elsewhere on Jean's Forum

http://forum.jbperf.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=20

The newer one is described here

http://forum.jbperf.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=825

It basicaly needs to be added to a self designed mainboard, a bit like the way the MS2 daughterboard plugs into the V3.0 mainboard or the way 14.7 SLC-OEM modules plug into self designed boards.

So I'm designing a carrier board for this (I already have one on order from Jean) that suits my specific requirements. But my carrier board is big enough to add a few "optional" extras.

So if anyone dabbling in MS2 / extra / siamese, let me know ASAP........ because the PCB manufacturer I use provides TEN per batch and I will only need two. Price, at genuine cost, is about £3 per board so I would like to add any potential extras now, even though I won't use them.

My basic current design is a seperate power supply (not essential as the 5V and Vref can be taken off a standard MS2 board, which I will probably do as my new board isn't the standard one but I want to keep both options open), serial RS232 input for chained Inovative devices, I2C for the 14.7 stuff, a four pin CAN connector (see here http://forum.jbperf.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=381&start=40) and an USB link using a sparkfun board.

Basically all comms devices, I haven't yet decided which hardware I/O devices to include hence this post.

Jean is quite happy for me to be making this open to the forumso, although I realise most of you haven't got this far with MS2, I'd like to make my carrier PCB compatible with anything anyone else might like to think they might like to do in the future....

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Put me down for one of the carrier boards.

Can it have inputs for thermocouples, temp sensors and 0-5v signals?

Edited by Paul S on 5th Aug, 2011.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Paul,

While Rod's solution may work for you, you may want to have a look at another variant that is coming up soon: http://forum.jbperf.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=829

That fits in the same enclosure as the original IOx. It has up to 8 thermocouple inputs and the unpopulated thermocouple circuits can be used as ADC inputs. And that also leaves an unused connector input that can be used for something else that you would build in the proto area.

Jean

http://www.jbperf.com/

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Thanks Jean,

I need data to calibrate the simulation models. What I'm looking for is a solution that will log 4off EGTs, 4off temp sensors (2.5kOhm NTC), 4off 0-5v pressure sensors and a string of O2 sensors.

The choice of O2 sensors is open to either AEMs with a 0-5v output, the new Innovate gauge with chained serial output or the 14.7 SLC whatsit.

I'm doing this with the IOx and Logger boards on the Miglia but need something similar for the 998T ST2.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Paul,

The CAN-EGT+ board can do the 4 EGTs, 4 pressure sensors and an Innovate chain without doing any soldering. For the 4 temp sensors, you can use the proto area and the free connector ports or better yet, use the free ADC circuits with the correct bias resistor for your sensor and build the pressure sensor ADC conditioners on the proto area (fewer components in the proto area in that case: 2 caps and 1 resistor per input).

The I2C bus is also available through a bus extender for the SLC OEM or you can use my SLC OEM carrier board on top of the CAN-EGT+ board. In that case, you'll need the taller enclosure but that would make it a single box solution.

Jean

http://www.jbperf.com/

Paul,

Actually, there might be one annoying thing with what I mentioned above. You will need a Vref wire to power the pressure sensors and there is no connector port available for it in the configuration mentioned above.

So you would need to do something about this unless you plan on putting the sensors inside the box (on a piece of perf board?) in which case you can run a wire to the Vref pad on the CAN-EGT+ board.

Jean

http://www.jbperf.com/

Jean,

I've fitted the pressure sensors inside the case and taken a 5v signal from Vref on the IOx board, so I can do the same again.

Rod,

Back to the original purpose of your post, this is the sort of IO that I am looking for. Obviously, the O2 signals can be either 0-5v or chained serial.

Edited by Paul S on 5th Aug, 2011.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

I just wanted to mention that I did not want to detract the attention from Rod's project but simply point out a possible solution.

I wholeheartedly support Rod in his project and if what he proposes fills your needs better than what I have then by all means go with it.

Jean

http://www.jbperf.com/

Thanks both.

Perhaps a bit of background would help - Jean's full size IOx is a great bit of kit but it focuses on what I would describe as "hardware" input/outputs. There are lots of options hence a large board space to install these options, taking up 120mm of case length.

But on the comms side we still need to resort to DIY. For example, to set up the Innovate digital data link (so up to eight widebands can be read digitally) requires a seperate RS232 circuit to be built. To connect by USB requires a separate circuit (unlesss you have the logger board). To connect to the I2C interface (digital data for the 14point7 widebands) requires soldering to pads, or fabricate your own plug/socket arrangement.

I'm not sure why the others on Jean's forum asked for it, but those are the reasons I asked for a "cut-down" version that focussed on comms.

Inevitably there wasn't a consensus on the comms so what Jean has done is provide a version with basically nothing except a CAN transceiver !!!

Now that actually suits me perfectly as it takes up so little space and allows me to build exactly what I want.

For those who are beginning to use MS2 (and it appears a few more on the TM forum are), when they run out of IO, it's quite likely our requirements will all be similar (for example both Graham T and myself have built external RS232 bridges to the IOx for Innovate controllers).

What I am saying at this stage I could fit a couple of "hardware" type I or O as well.

In Paul's example above, that is six analogue inputs.

Other who have considered the MS2 limitations might want a couple of high current outputs (ie, NOS relays).

What I would like to know is what is the "best" compromise - I want this board to be as small as possible :)

The way I see it is Jean already caters for people who want a lot of extras on an MS2 system (and MS3 as well) but if you want lots then stick with Jean's additional boards, they cater for just about everything, or upgrade to MS3 (and you'll probably still need some of Jean's boards anyway).

All I'm really saying is I will have some boards left over as the supplier does batches of ten, but they will be deliberately small and only have things that may be of use to anyone using MS2 with the siamese code. So there is the opportunity (for a few days) to suggest.....

There are some limitations to even what I want, for example the IOx code at present doesn't allow for digital wideband data on RS232 and I2C simultaneously (so you can't mix Innovate and 14point7 controller with digital data) but Jean has said he will consider that for a code update.

Paul, I'll email you separately later.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Rod, this looks good.
Count me in for one.
As far as Inputs, I don’t intend on getting too in depth with analysis hardware. My needs will be fairly simple:
Get the wideband inputs off of the Megasquirt so that I can use the MS2’s native inputs for other features and increase the number of analogue inputs available:

Ultimately my plan is to have no gauges on the dashboard and use Tunerstudio software on a carputer to give driver information.


I currently have this running well on the Clubman build – I have problems with the serial input of the LC-1’s, but that is a problem with one of the LC-1’s not the IOx.
Oil pressure sensor works well and I am in the middle of working on fuel level indicator circuit.

I will need additional air temp sensors, probably another Pressure sensor in the inlet pipework and possibly add a fuel pressure sensor, but I doubt I will go further than this.

With the MS enclosure, Hammond case for the IOx board, another case for my other circuitry, the fuse/ relay board and the small laptop mounted it really does fill the dash rail.
If I can condense this down it would make the install in the Turbo project a lot easier and neater…

’77 Clubman build thread
http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.php?p=vt&tid=618189

Siamese 5 port EFI testing
http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.php?p=vt&tid=611675

Well it arrived today.

Here it is sitting upside down (how it will be installed) on a bit of veroboard in a standard Eurocard size case (160x100mm, about the same size as an MS2 case but metric). The red board next to it is a USB adapter.



The board it will be installed on is only 60mm long... (where the black line is on the veroboard).



(design not yet finished at the left).

I've gone mainly for comms - USB (obvious), I2C (for 14point7 widebands digital data), RS232 (for up to 8 Innovate widebands, digital data), CAN (required anyway to link to the MS2 but can also link to other automotive CAN enabled devices), but after discussions with Paul and Graham I have so far added 6 ADC inputs (anything analogue, temperature, pressure, position, etc) and still have space for some programmable outputs (up to 7 spare spaces on my connector).

What will then sit next to this in the 160mm case is the finished version of this,



Up to four 14point7 "SLC-OEM" modules. Wideband controllers that actually use the factory calibration resistor (done by Bosch on a "rich" test gas) rather than the usual fudge of "free air" calibration used by some of the common brands (but that's another long story). Digital outputs to the MS2 via I2C to the IOx and analogue (0-5V) for dashboard gauges.

The picture above is only 80mm long but doesn't work as the fuses hit each other, but I've now got another 20mm to extend it by......


The full size IOx uses 120mm of case space but although this is is essentially half the size (because I have limited the IOs to what I want, not all the options available on Jean's full size board), I chose the larger 160mm case because it fits the widebands too and is the same size as I chose for my own MS2 box (about the same size as the standard MS2 box, just on the left of the first photo) so once I've re-designed the wideband board, I will end up with two 100x160 cases on top of each other.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Well doesn't time fly...

August since I got the new board from Jean and now October....









Layout is 60 X 100 (as in the previous post) and has;
6 generic ADC inputs (temperature, pressure, potentiometer (ie, TPS)) whatever needed.
4 ADC inputs specifically for temperature (usually normal NTC sensors but EGT if you add the EGT amplifiers on a bit of veroboard).
Three medium current switched outputs.
CAN - needed obviously for this to talk to an MS2 - via a 3.5mm jack or header wires at the back of the PCB.
RS232 for Innovate widebands (up to 8 of them) on a standard 2.5mm jack (ground optional).
I2C for the 14point7 widebands, or anything else I2C..... (pull up resistors included).

Oh... and a nice little LED to show its working, I'm going to use a blue one :)

It will take a couple of weeks for the PCBs to arrive from HK/China so I can test them but hopefully this will get over the limitations of the standard MS2 without having to use Jean's full size IOx, or having to upgrade to MS3....

I still have to finish the 14point7 board (above) to make this a complete package for me on a 5 port siamese, multiple widebands, etc, etc, etc...

I probably ought to finish the car and get it MOT'd first, but what the hell......

Edited by Rod S on 20th Oct, 2011.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

That's great Rod, I'll have one.

Ignore that last email I sent you. I should learn to read more.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

It's a cheap solution to the limitations of the MS2.

The bare board is about £2 ($29.90 for ten posted) assuming I got it right and it works :)

I think Jean is selling the IOx-OEM for $75 plus postage at the moment (so about £50 delivered to the UK) and then another £20-30 ish for the rest of the parts, about £10 for the case, so less than £100 to upgrade an MS2...

By the time I've added the triple widebands in the same case it will probably be nearer £250 (the 14point7 modules are about £40 each) plus the cost of the LSUs themselves (I already have them) but still not bad for the integrated package that I want.

The MS2 that will be underneath is another story which I can't talk about or Paul gets me into trouble :)

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

PCBs finally arrived today.... like buses, they all arrived at once (despite the differences in order/dispatch dates, there must be only one flight from HK to UK per week for small packages.....)



The IOx-OEM one is top left.

Here's how it will fit with the 14point7 stuff (if I can get it to work).



The 14point7 seems to be a real issue at the moment, Alan (who is 14point7) seems pretty un-concerned that there are serious spam issues on his forum and possible firmware issues on the SLC modules.

Hopefully he will resolve this (without slagging off any more customers (me) because they point out the problems) but only time will tell.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Sorry to hear about your problems with 14point7. As you know i've decided to use the Innovate MTX-L for the 998Ti ST2.

I'll have one of the IOX-OEM carrier boards and an EGT board.

Are you going to offer the components in kit form? Save us a lot of time :)

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Only partially assembled so far - need some more parts, hopefully will arrive tommorow.



Paul. I'll email you once it works..

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Well a couple of months later, as usual...

The IOx-OEM part assembled and working



Thanks to a lot of help from Jean over the last couple of days over hardware issues and Phil Tobin (TunerStudio) for confirming what Jean thought was wrong on the software.

It was originally intended to be an interface with everything plus some 14point7 modules (from 14point7.com) but as he let me down so badly I thought I'd turn it into a data logger alone.

Jean said I could but it took a couple of days to sort the problems out (mostly my own problems).

So, althought it was intended to be connected to this



via a CAN link that works fine, it now connects to a PC via USB and acts as a stand alone data logger.

Maybe Alan To at 14point7 will eventually get back to me with all the problems with the SLC modules (wideband controllers) that are un-resolved and I have lodged a claim with Royal mail for the one I sent back to be re-programmed but he claims he never received it (allways get a Certificate of Posting with dealing with anyone overseas) but at the moment I think a simple wideband solution is out of the window.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

I looked into those 14point7 module things a few years back and decided the chap seemed to be a BAC. So baught a techedge cheapey.

I run a supercharger and I don't care the TB is on the wrong side.
VEMS + 12 PSI + Liquid Intercooler = Small Bore FUN!

Rod, Although you do not have the 14point7 issues resolved, presumably this will still work as originally intended for those of us with investments in the innovate widebands?

Also, that LED does not look Blue...

’77 Clubman build thread
http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.php?p=vt&tid=618189

Siamese 5 port EFI testing
http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.php?p=vt&tid=611675

What's the issue with the CAN link then Rod?

Can you not see the data in TS via the MS?

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

It works fine now (subject to a bit more hardware testing later today).

The issues are all here

http://forum.jbperf.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=999

...if you want some long boring reading.

I've yet to test the LC-1 serial link (no reason to suspect it will fail as the fundamental problem(s) were elsewhere).

Basically I got a couple of tracks wrong on the PCB, got sidetracked by the CPU getting warm for reasons unknown, and there was a bug in the version of TS I was testing with.

This experiment was to get it to work as a stand alone data logger rather than connected to an MS2/3.... it now does both fine.

CAN passthrough is fine, I even reloaded the CPU firmware by CAN (although there was probably nothing wrong with it in first place).

And the reason for trying it stand alone was because of all the problems with 14point7 and, as of this afternoon, that is even more bizzare....

And yes Graham, I used a green LED for the prototype :)

I've got the blue ones but I decided to only use them on the final version as they about three times the price of the green ones :)

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Ha Ha

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???