just a couple questions
Turbo Mini Forums

edit:maybe wrong section :/

right im having a couple problems if anyone could help out id appreciate it

what size gap should i get between the vr sensor and 36-1 wheel?

now i have checked it my self on the net but neither way for me seems to make a difference so which way does the sensor need to be connected?

the grounding/ sheilding cable is that used as the -ve on the vr sensor? some threads on another forum seem to say no!!! lol

im running 2 coil waisted spark with D14/D16 as the 1st and 2nd coils but should the LED's (D14/D16) flash when the coil fires?

and i have now figured out how to log the toothed wheel input but its too late to fire it up to test anything

basically im getting nothing when cranking

cheers

Edited by Brett on 31st Jul, 2011.

Yes i moved to the darkside

Instagram @jdm_brett

yeah the LED's should flash as the coils fire,

you might need to tweek the pots.

Yes, LEDs flash alternately as each half of the coilpack is fired so it's a good indicator if the VR is working (but you have the RPM indication and synched light in Tuner Studio to tell you that anyway and you have the tooth logger to check with, as you say at the end).

On the basic MS2/3 the VR input is a bit of a fudge, hence the trim pots to try and get around all the variables (they will most likely be your problem as Joe says). But because the input circuit is very basic, VR- and the sheilding around the cable are basically the same, ie, they are both connected to ground at the MS end (although at different pins on the connector). That doesn't mean you should use the shielding as the VR- connection as a good cable will be a twisted pair inside which minimises noise affecting the VR+ and VR- (ie, any noise is balanced out).

I've found 0.8 - 1.0mm is best gap for me.

One final point, just because you have (presumably) tested it on the JimStim and had a good signal, the pot settings may well have to be completely different on a real VR sensor in the car (mine certainly do.....)

Personally, If it's a self build, I would leave the whole VR circuit out and use Jean's latest board, a true VR+/- input with no pots to worry about and much more sensitive (look in the "build manual" thread).

EDIT - I missed one point, have you got the VR+ and VR- the right way around at the sensor plug ?

EDIT2 (pin connection, I had to look it up in my notes) - For the VR, look at the junior timer connector (plug) that goes onto the VR sensor. If it is new it will have "1" and "2" moulded into the plastic part of the pin sleeves. "1" is positive.

If secondhand or unmarked, hold it with the wires towards you, the plug part away from you and the metal release clip on top, "1" is the righthand side.


Final point (don't take this the wrong way) but is it set in the software for spark A being D14 ?

Edited by Rod S on 1st Aug, 2011.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

cheers guys exactly the info i was looking for

an update, the vr sensor works perfect very clean signal ( after a pot twiddle or two)
i asked about the sheilded cable because i bought the ready built loom mainly because it was a very good price imo with the cable lables printed on and stuff..

the VR -ve is wired into the the sheilding on that loom so i copied it again on my loom (bringing me onto my next point lol) although good value for money the loom didnot include all the extra wires (eg spr1-4) so i ha to use my spare plug and make another as it did not have pins for the spare wires ether lol

the other upgrades and add ons for ms will be a winter task just want it ready for mitp

jimstim... nope

vr connections double checked and are fine

all software setup as per the build guide but i am still not getting the flasshing LED's :/
coil pack yet to be wired, should the LED's flash even with no load on the end of the wires with no jimstim its going to be a case of wire it up and see i think everything else checks out dont see where i would have made a mistake


edit: im just getting the log view now as i took some logs when playing :) does it log the coils firing at all?

Edited by Brett on 1st Aug, 2011.

Yes i moved to the darkside

Instagram @jdm_brett

If it's a "standard" build (ie, the LEDs were built and the coilpack resistors and ignitor chips added on top of them, which would be the normal way of doing it) then yes.... The LEDs are driven by the CPU output so if the CPU is set for wasted spark and D14/16, they will flash.

The resistor. ignitor chip is just an extra load on the CPU output ports, the output ports should flash the LEDs irrespective....

Tooth logger - I've never actually used it (sorry, mine worked first time...) but I believe it just logs the inputs to the CPU, not the outputs.

If you don't have a JimStim you really need to connect it to the laptop (with it in the car) and see if you get cranking RPM and synch in TunerStudio/MegaTunix.

Also make sure your coilpack settings (esp the "inverted" setting and dwell time) are correct before you actually start it for real or you could fry the coilpack.

The wiring on "standard" looms is questionable - the lack of SPR1-4 just shows it - but I'm surprised they didn't bother to do the VR signal right..... possibly the standard one assumes Hall rather than VR ???

I made my own loom from day one.... and I've since moved on to a proper connector anyway.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

DIYAutotune has a new loom which includes the spare pins and has the correct VR wiring. This was a sore point for many users and they have responded in the end.

It still doesn't correct the VR circuit shortcomings or use an automotive connector but those are different issues.

Jean

http://www.jbperf.com/

well an interesting day messing about getting nothing ( excepts some very nice wiring ), whilst browsing the various forums searching for similar problems i discovered another firmware update ( dunno how long its been out for) msextra 3.1.1 (was 3.1.0) all problems sorted it would seem just like that

happy, fingers crossed for the first fire up on ms tomorrow afternoon :)

edit, and changing the shielded cable first job on the list, including beefing up the earth wires and coil-out wires im unsure what sort of current they will be handling but they feel a tad thin compared to the oem thickness wires on the coil pack connector

Edited by Brett on 2nd Aug, 2011.

Yes i moved to the darkside

Instagram @jdm_brett

That sounds a bit strange - I'm on a much earlier version of the firmware (why change what works is my view).

What actually are your problems Brett ??

EDIT - just seen your edit.... how exactly are you taking the coilpack wires out and how have you got the ignitors installed ???

Edited by Rod S on 2nd Aug, 2011.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Yes i moved to the darkside

Instagram @jdm_brett

Edited by Rod S on 3rd Aug, 2011.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

There were a couple of versions of the 3.0 code which were dodgy then, as I had a revision of 3.0 on my box which would cause the sync loss counter to rise steadily all the time, and would hard reset itself whilst doing nothing at all(power on, no activity).

I can't remember the revision but if I find it on my PC then i'll put it up here.

Changed to 3.1.1 and bingo, no more sync loss.

been doing a couple bits today, mainly to find tdc and put some marking on so they can be checked with a timing light

does this method sound right?
plug out on no1 cyl screwdriver in (after i removed the washer )
feel with the screwdriver where tdc is, put a mark on the pully and a mark on the timing cover at the same spot ( ie tdc markings)
i then fired it over using a 0 deg static timing the marks in theory should line straight up on the timing strobe yeah?

they only lined up when i set the crank offset to 81 deg btdc ( where it was 90)
does that mean the bracket is 9 deg out?
or is this method bollox

also i can see on the ignition map the point its is reading during running, say the map says 24deg advance for instance the dial gauge on the display (labled igniton advance) says 28deg its always 4 more than the map states
edit, i should add it does this now but did not yesterday

any pointers? all in tunerstudio

Edited by Brett on 4th Aug, 2011.

Yes i moved to the darkside

Instagram @jdm_brett

I wouldnt be happy with finding TDC like that,

What I have done in the past is smashed the porcelain out of an old plug and put a bolt through it so it stops the piston coming all the way to TDC, you then gently wind the engine over by hand untill the piston kisses the plug thingy, mark the pully, then wind the engine back the otherway till it touches again and make a mark, hen you ad another mark half way between the two you just made, the third mark is your accurate TDC mark, you can then make it peranent with a file or somthing and loose the other two.

also if you can do the marking on the outside rim of the flywheel it will be loads more accurate.

also depending on your strobe it may read double if its a digital one.