what Jenvey throttle body to get???
Turbo Mini Forums

hi what size body is recommended?
1 or 2 injectors?
and whats the going price for a second hand one??
as thinking of a supercharger or turbo set up (me and the wife both have spi so mite do one of each lol)

Edited by johnflamered on 20th Mar, 2010.

I'm no expert, but as long as I've got my angle grinder and big hammer, I'm sure I'll manage to work it out.

Are planning on single point injection or twin point injection? And which inlet manifold are planning on using?

Jean

http://www.jbperf.com/

Double post. Damn slow internet (or forum?)...

Edited by jbelanger on 20th Mar, 2010.

http://www.jbperf.com/

neither

I'm no expert, but as long as I've got my angle grinder and big hammer, I'm sure I'll manage to work it out.

I use twin.
It is a over there in the middle of mess.....

1399cc, Eaton M45 supercharger, N2O system, compression ratio 9.23:1, boost pressure 0,8bar/11.6psi.

http://www.garaget.org/?car=176816

Injecting the 5 port Mini successfully is very difficult due to the siamese inlet ports.

Have a read of this:

http://www.starchak.ca/efi/siamese.htm

If you want to do port injection properly, then you will need an ECU that allows you to set the injection timing. The latest Megasquirt and the MS2/Extra code will do this. The Mini specific bits were developed and tested by this forum, so there is plenty of support.

You will need the Jenveys with two injectors if that is what you want. However, if you want to go supercharger or turbocharger, then a simple throttle body will suffice.

Have a read of the EFI stuff on here.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

had a look in the efi bit but with all them points of view its hard to work out whats right and whats not??

"You will need the Jenveys with two injectors if that is what you want. However, if you want to go supercharger or turbocharger, then a simple throttle body will suffice"

see even you gave to answers lol take jenveys for a wet manifold and throttle body with injectors in the manifold for direct port injection

p.s sprocket you know i will be ringing you soon lol

I'm no expert, but as long as I've got my angle grinder and big hammer, I'm sure I'll manage to work it out.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

lol carb never was only asking to see what you lot had used to save time i have never not worked out how to do somethin. complex yes but thats what furums and mates are for lol

I'm no expert, but as long as I've got my angle grinder and big hammer, I'm sure I'll manage to work it out.

There is no doubt that you could get a single Jenvey to "work" in a wet manifold situation, but I'm not convinced that you would get accurate AFRs on all cylinders. I would need to see some dual wideband plots to be convinced.

You could fit two Jenveys on a short twin SU manifold and effectively have port injection. But you will need timed injection to make it work right at all loads/speeds.

It would be cheaper and simpler to use an OEM throttle body, but you would need to fabricate a manifold to take the injectors.

The specific issues of dealing with the siamese ports means that it's not simply a matter of buying the latest fashion in branded components and bolting it all together.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

I'm no expert, but as long as I've got my angle grinder and big hammer, I'm sure I'll manage to work it out.

No amount of rolling road and mapping will fix a poorly configured setup.

A wet manifold etup will be no better than a carb, most likely worse.

A port injection setup without an ECU that will provide timed injection won't give results either.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

think the set up i am going to try first is throttle body with 2 injectors and if needed add 2 injectors in the maifold (custom manifold) and vems or megasquirt or some think like that will do my home work and let you know what i come up with as with any mini there will be room for improvement but that comes with time

I'm no expert, but as long as I've got my angle grinder and big hammer, I'm sure I'll manage to work it out.

okay,

and how are you going to time the injection so it goes into the right valve?

are you going to look through the 6000+ lines of code that is in a megasquirt and write in new code that is needed to properly fuel the A series,

or you could just search for what Paul has already done and see what you are planing will not and cannot work properly.

not after perfection to start with half the fun is making it better as you go alone thats why we love minis and as i said will do my home work on turbo and supercharger set ups and see what will be the right set up for me so get ready for lots of silly questions lol any and all tips welcomed

Edited by johnflamered on 21st Mar, 2010.

I'm no expert, but as long as I've got my angle grinder and big hammer, I'm sure I'll manage to work it out.

my first tip is listen to paul he and a couple others (jb +rod spring to mind) are THE cutting edge for port injection on the 5port

my second tip is search because it has been done before
.
And lastly i never did understand pub talk...

Edited by Brett on 21st Mar, 2010.

Yes i moved to the darkside

Instagram @jdm_brett

John,

It might help if you decided early on between supercharger or turbo.

To the best of my knowledge, all the development work pioneered by Paul and Jean (and later followed by myself and others) on sequential timed port injection has been for a turbo (or even normally aspirated) setups.

I think all the supercharger/injection setups on this forum use simple (single) throttle body without any attempt at sequential timed code (as it would be pointless anyway with injectors on a single throttle body).

A single throttle body with one or more injectors is normally refered to as "wet manifold" and is, at best, an electronic SU. It has the advantage that it is a lot easier to map than filing an SU needle or trying to put bits back on when you filed too much off.... It has the disadvantage that injectors work in pulses whereas an SU supplies a constant varying stream of fuel and the pulses add a randomness to which cylinder the fuel arrives in at different engine speeds.

Port injection could probably be done with two throttle bodies if you could get them on a custom manifold very close to the head but ideally you want the injectors as close to the head face as possible. But, although individual throttle bodies are used on a lot of performance forced induction engines, they are virtually all engines with individual inlet ports, not siamesed ports.

For full control of AFRs in each cylinder for the siamesed port engine with forced induction and fuel injection, what has been proven to work so far is a single throttle body (no injectors) followed by a large plenum/airbox followed by a custom manifold with injectors close to the head. There is some fancy mathematical equation about the volume of the plenum/airbox compared to the capacity of the engine that makes this work in a turbocharged application.

That doesn't mean individual throttle bodies won't work, just that it hasn't been tried yet in this context.

However, any sort of port injection is only justified if you use the sequential timed code for the Megasquirt that Jean wrote and Paul developed. To use any other system just leaves the same mixture imbalance an SU would deliver. Also, to set it all up you need to instal two widebands.

Any solution inbetween, like your suggestion of a throttle body and additional injectors on the manifold, will just add even more randomness to where the fuel ends up....

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Edited by Paul S on 21st Mar, 2010.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."