Another trial..... now started
Turbo Mini Forums

OK,

I'm posting a seperate thread to my "show us yours" build.

This thread is specifically for the analysis of the siamese port problems with injection.....

So far I have built my turbo (potentially) engine at 1360cc and have a "mule" 1275 MG Metro (N/A) engine to do the initial tests on. The only confusion to that is that I have temporarily put a severely skimmed head on the (low compression) turbo engine to run it in with a carb, so the initial tests may be on this rather than the MG Metro engine.

Anyway, I have a single Inovative wideband controller that I purchased at the time I bought the Megasquirt (to go on the common exhaust system) and TWO TechEdge DIY controllers and digital displays that I bought as kits and assembled just recentley to go on the inner and outer cylinders....

The TechEdge stuff, if it will do as it claims, will allow me to log just about everything, including inputs direct from Megasquirt and the Innovate (on the common exhaust) via a 0-5V link.

So my plan at the moment is to get the 1360 engine running (out of the car, and on a carb and dizzy) and see if I can get all the data I want.



The third wideband is out of the photo (at the bottom), mainly because I haven't welded the boss in yet...

Edited by Rod S on 11th Dec, 2008.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Well done Rod.

My first logging sessions were on carb, so if you want some data to compare, let me know.

This is the thread:

http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.php?p=vt&tid=190001

I can email you the whole spreadsheet of data if you are interested.

It will be interesting to see if you find that there is a difference in AFRs at idle between the inner and outer cylinders of about 2 like I did.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Yes Paul,

Ovbiously data shared is to all our benefit, I'm just still a long way behind !!!

Getting the TechEdge to work (only initally tested so far but working as far as I can see) was a real pain....

Look here
http://wbo2forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=1735

and then here,
http://wbo2.com/2y/kit.htm
and you might realise that the "important errata" are down to me....

EDIT - probaly worth saying that the links I posted are only valid tonight.... the comments on the forum, and especially the build manual, will change pretty quickly after what I have already said...

Edited by Rod S on 5th Dec, 2008.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

As I did my ECU myself (a reprogrammed Bosch Motronic) I started with a carb with all sensors in place, then switched to static ignition while still being able to use the dizzy (in case of bugs), then made work injection code while still running carbs, then switched to MPI and then went turbo.
The step-by-step approach is the best as you know the little thing you've changed.

Edited by alpa on 5th Dec, 2008.

std 998 A+, g295, MD266, RHF4, 109hp @0.8bar/5400rpm

I don't want to hijack the thread but I think it is related. I have done some progress on the new siamese code.

The new ms2extra code is quite different from the old one I used for the previous version so it has meant almost starting from scratch. However, I think I should have something ready within a week. That will include the current semi-sequential mode and the new fully sequential mode which will require a cam sensor.

Jean

http://www.jbperf.com/

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

That sounds like a very good plan. Step-by-step is the way to go since it's still in the experimental phase.

And the plan is to indeed have the possibility of setting different injection timing for the inner and outer cylinders. The default will still be semi-sequential timing even with different fueling but there is another optional timing table. So it will be possible to use 1 or 2 fuel tables and 1 or 2 timing tables assuming you have a cam sensor. Without the cam sensor, it's still a single fuel table and a single timing table.

Jean

http://www.jbperf.com/

OK,

Very basic stuff at the moment...

Got the TechEdge DIY build working (a long story but hopefully their QA is now fixed...)
and powered up.

(sorry about the quality of some of the photos)

No logging yet, just display photos...




Free air calibration (PFC not in photo),


Warm-up


Then more stable


Then warmed up





To save guessing, left chanel is outers, right is inners.

A bit erratic during warm-up but then following what I expected.

The TechEdge stuff seems really good (apart from the DIY issues) so I'll try and start some proper logging tommorow....

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

That's interesting.

A bit closer than mine were at idle, but still the inners running rich.

Can I suggest that you swap them round just to check that both sensors and controllers are giving the same answers.

Keep up the good work. I'm going to see if I can isolate some idling data from my early tests.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

My carb log from last year shows AFRs of 14 outer, 12.5 inner on idle after a run.

That was with an SW5 cam. I'm using a similar inlet profile cam on the 998.

What cam are you using Rod?

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

OK,

Engine spec....

I've deviated a little from my initial plans so this isn't the MG Metro engine.

It's the "turbo" engine but N/A at the moment.

1360 on 73mm Hypatech pistons, pistons dished to 14cc but a severely skimmed head applied temporarily to get CR back up to about 9.8:1

MG metro (N/A) cam.

HIF44 carb on N/A MG manifold and MG (N/A) exhaust manifold modified for 2" exhaust.

Lambda probes set at (as far as I could achieve) equal average distance from ports.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Any logs yet Rod?

Metro Turbo manifold is in the post.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Very quick test last night, just to see if I could get the software to work...

Total nightmare and inconclusive

First think that threw me is TechEdge use lambda (rather than AFR) as their default so all the scales were wrong and I tried re-writing them in a freezing cold garage.

Then the engine didn't want to warm up so kept stalling whenever I walked to the laptop...

Then it took ages to figure out how to convert the saved files to meaningfull graphs....

But I think I've figured it all out now, how to log in AFR instead of lambda.

Will try again later but early indications, my engine actually runs slightly weaker on the inners at idle (slow or fast) but reverses when it's revved up ???

EDIT - can't remember the correct tags for pdf files, obviously not IMG....

EDIT2 - going mad, attachments now sorted

EDIT3 - red is outers, green is inners on these graphs

Attachments:

17.76kb

17.47kb

Edited by Rod S on 11th Dec, 2008.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

fascinating ,thanks rod.

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

OK, just for some more "fun" after a long afternoon....

pause a while for the attachments...

I hate the way attachments work, but this was swapping the probes around (probe/cable and controller) to try and prove they are both calibrated properly...

Seems OK to me (so far).

Attachments:

98.88kb

97.5kb

Edited by Rod S on 11th Dec, 2008.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

So now look at this, cold start...

See how the AFRs reverse as the "choke" goes in....

Attachments:

96.92kb

Edited by Rod S on 11th Dec, 2008.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Note, these are all screen prints from the laptop, I haven't yet tried the saved logs... too hard at the moment.

Luckily my laptop is in range of my fileserver even out in the garage...

Edited by Rod S on 11th Dec, 2008.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Is this a heated manifold ?

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."