Thinking of Going to MS-2
Turbo Mini Forums

Ive been reading up on this MS lark and fancy having a dabble.

I want to run the MS with the Edis to control my Ingition timing, but i also like the idea of ridding of the SU and fitting some throttle bodies. I dont want to make any fancy manifolds and plenums thus the reason for wanting to use some Throttle bodies from a motorbike. I have access to make manifolds but i want to keep them nice and simple.

Can i use a similair job to this



Obviously i want to turbo it. Does anyone have any basic pointers as to which throttle bodies and injectors to use. And can i actually use throttle bodies in the first place?

Ta Very Mooch

Mike

1/4 Mile 14.3secs 96Mph Terminal 10psi of boost.


Fibreglass Parts? - http://www.tdkracing.co.uk/
Split Rims? - http://www.force-racing.co.uk/

First the easy point - why keep the EDIS ???
The MS (if built with two VB921s) will drive the coilpack direct.

The harder one is obviously the injection - you will need some sort of plenum (call it just an airbox if you like)
if you're going turbo, simply to distribute the compresed air to both the inlet ports.
Whether you use two individual throttle bodies after the "plenum" or a single one before (as mine will be)..... there are arguements for and against....
The real issue though is the charge robbing that WILL occour, especially when injecting into the ports.

Paul S is obviously the pioneer in this area, but if my TechEdge stuff arrives today, I might start to catch up a bit....

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Im a complete novice with this, ill just drive the coilpack direct then, i currently have a megajolt installed on it, but ill be puting this on my Cooper S.

I gathered id have to make a plenum chamber but thats big deal really.

Id like to use 2 Throttle bodies. Does anyone have any suggestions as to which ones to use? And will i have to change the injectors?

Whats charge robbing when its at home?

1/4 Mile 14.3secs 96Mph Terminal 10psi of boost.


Fibreglass Parts? - http://www.tdkracing.co.uk/
Split Rims? - http://www.force-racing.co.uk/

These are fitted to a 1380

1/4 Mile 14.3secs 96Mph Terminal 10psi of boost.


Fibreglass Parts? - http://www.tdkracing.co.uk/
Split Rims? - http://www.force-racing.co.uk/

No reason why you cannot use throttle bodies that we know of. Injecting into the turbulent air just downstream of the throttle may have some interesting affects. Probably a little less fabricating to do.

You will need the Siamese Code and a cam sensor to get the same fueling across all cylinders. Some people will tell you that you do not, however, they have not actually proved this by testing with dual widebands.

I'm hoping for some progress with mine in the coming months.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

if I am correct then those pics are from the canems site. Have a detailed read on that page, as it describes the problems with injection on a siamese inlet port head.

Or start here..

http://www.starchak.ca/efi/siamese.htm

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

i am planning efi (with turbo later) on my mini for some time now, i have been reading as much as i can find, i need to read more , i am keeping my eye on this thread, :)

Yes i moved to the darkside

Instagram @jdm_brett

When reading other site they all seem to be written by experts for experts. Theres no spaz guide, which is what i need. Hmmm Cam sensor? How the hell would you do that. Theres a good article in Mini Mag that i keep referring to by Canems, and its on a 1l mini. They just use 2 Widebands 1 on the outer one on the inner.

Could i not just do this??

1/4 Mile 14.3secs 96Mph Terminal 10psi of boost.


Fibreglass Parts? - http://www.tdkracing.co.uk/
Split Rims? - http://www.force-racing.co.uk/

The dual widebands are for testing purposes only. Once turboed you will be on a single wideband.

With respect, if you do not understand the issues of charge robbing, then best leave it a while until someone has a system working and the pitfalls are fully understood, otherwise, you could spend a lot of cash and get nowhere.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Edited by Rod S on 24th Nov, 2008.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Right on, ill hang about then i recons. I have thought about sticking it on My S however,

So the Turbo End of the spectrum is a bit of unknown one at the mo then.

Would it be fairly simple to do on an N/A then?

Ta

Mike

1/4 Mile 14.3secs 96Mph Terminal 10psi of boost.


Fibreglass Parts? - http://www.tdkracing.co.uk/
Split Rims? - http://www.force-racing.co.uk/

I'm running the Siamese Code on my 998 at the moment in NA mode.

It works great. But the AFRs are not close enough for a turbo application.

The code needs refining to allow the use of a cam sensor before going turbo.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Whats the crack with the cam sensor then? Doesnt the MPI use one?

1/4 Mile 14.3secs 96Mph Terminal 10psi of boost.


Fibreglass Parts? - http://www.tdkracing.co.uk/
Split Rims? - http://www.force-racing.co.uk/

The ECU needs to know which part of the engine cycle, No. 1 piston is on so that it can time the injection. Hence it needs a cam sensor.

The current code fires every 360 degrees so it does not matter. BUT each cylinder gets the same amount of fuel. Both myself and alpa have found that the inner cylinders require about 15% less fuel, presumably because they get 15% less air due to the siamesed port.

To refine the fueling we are bringing in a cam sensor so that we can fire the injector every 720 degrees, but at a specific point to ensure every cylinder gets exactly the fuel it needs.

My cam sensor thread:

http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.php?p=vt&tid=228314

Edited by Paul S on 24th Nov, 2008.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

I see, what stage are you at with this.

1/4 Mile 14.3secs 96Mph Terminal 10psi of boost.


Fibreglass Parts? - http://www.tdkracing.co.uk/
Split Rims? - http://www.force-racing.co.uk/

I would say that we are nearly there.

I hope so because I'm planning on using the MS on the 200hp engine that I'm building.

There is quite a bit more testing to do, which at this time of year can be difficult. Plus I have too many other projects on the go.

I think that by next spring we will know if this will work or not.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Hi,
You could always use a single throttle body on an SU type of manifold?
Cheers,
Gavin :)

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Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."