MS2 Extra 2.0.1 PCB v3.0 on 1275cc SPi Mini
Turbo Mini Forums

Good Day All.

Some of you have already seen my other post on this fourm, for thoese who have not seen my post, I have been working very closely with James Murray (jsmcortina) who writes the MS2 Extra code for MegaSquirt.

I am working a 1275cc SPI Mini that I am converting over to MegaSquirt as the stock ecu is playing up.

We now have this mini with the rover 36-1-1 trigger wheel working with MS2 extra 2.0.1, The timing is still of by 6deg but you can offset this in the software so that your ign table is right, and will be corrected in the next version of MS2 Extra

Below are the details of this mini that I have been able to find so far.

Make / Model: Rover Mini.
Engine Code: 12A2EF77.
Engine Capacity: 1275cc.
Fuel / Ignition System: Rover MEMS TBI-i.
Firing Order: 1-3-4-2.
Injector Make / Model: Bosch (0 280 150 682) 1.6ohm.
Injector Flow Rate: 680cc/min (64.8lbhr) @3bar (43.5psi). or 393cc/min (37.4lbhr) @ 1bar (14.5psi).
Fuel Pressure with vacuum: 1.0-1.1bar.
Air Intake Temp Sensor Make / Model: NNK10001 or ELMWOOD ES110-1.
Coolent Temp Sensor Make / Model: ADU7161 or Lucas 73246A.
Power at fly: 63.0 bhp @ 5550 rpm.
Torque at fly: 70 ftlb @ 3000 rpm.

I will update this post as the mini progresses.

Thanks for your time.

Edited by Mad Professor on 13th May, 2008.

As I have got open access to a Rolling Road when ever I need to use it, I have been trying to tune the fual and ign tables.

At idle I am running 5deg by 2500 I am upto 30deg, to me this seems quite high, and before I start higher up the rev range I tought I best ask what kind of advance curve the 1275cc mini's have.

Thanks for your time.

The attached is the map that I was using with Megasquirt on an NA 1275.

It was developed by the seat of my pants, rather than a rolling road, but worked well.

I can send you a .vex file to import into Megatune if you want.

EDIT: attachment wont load so piccie instead

Edited by Paul S on 13th May, 2008.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Hi,
On light loads you can through plenty of advance at it, this will improve torque and fuel economy.
Paul's map looks good to me, mine only went on the rollers after I'd mapped it, I went with more advance low down as I'm running a 285 cam
Cheers,
Gavin :)

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My Mini build diary

Hi Mad Professor! I am the guy who written the code for the 36-1-1 flywheel. I have left the missing teeth at exactly the TDC (have written to be determined in the code) because i just didn't know what really was the angle between Missing teeth and TDC.
I am very happy that it works, I haven't have a megasquirt yet, as I am tring to make a version more like plug and play for the mini. I am actually designing the board, just need to convert the IAC bipolar stepper signal into a unipolar one.

Let me know how it goes with the std MS

Thanks,

Thierry

Mini British Open II 1275 SPI Full Stock
working on SSpi project

Those injector flow rates are not right.

Idle advance for ther SPi and MPi, is 15 degrees +- 5. this is for when the ignition idle control goes beyond the +-5 degrees, it activates the stepper motor to add or remove air, thus bringing the ignitionn idle control back into the +-5 degree limits.

5 degree idle advance is pants and will be generating a lot of HC and CO

Cranking advance is 5 degrees

The above ignition map is not far off, though i would look at the lower end of the table around idle

Crank trigger missing teeth are bang on TDC and 180 degrees apart

Hope that helps you a little :)

Edited by Sprocket on 13th May, 2008.

Can anyone tell me what the gearbox drag is in % in a mini?

This is so that I can aprox power @ fly, as the rolling road I am using only reads power @ wheels.

I norm am not worried about power @ fly readings, but I just want to know once I have reached stock power.

Saying that I have already reached 50 ftlb of torque at 2500rpm at the wheels.

Sprocket: You say that my injector flow rates are worng, could you please point me to the right flow rates, as I took 3bar flow rate direct from bosch, and converted it down to the SPi fuel pressure of 1bar.

Thanks for your time.

Edited by Mad Professor on 14th May, 2008.

The french guy who developed an HP estimation software (on a Mini) talks about 15% gearbox/transmission losses on front driven cars. The tool is rather precise. PowerDyn.

std 998 A+, g295, MD266, RHF4, 109hp @0.8bar/5400rpm

15% Loss.

Readings from the rolling road are.
Power at wheels: 48.53 bhp @ 4350 rpm.
Torque at wheels: 62.19 ftlb @ 3305 rpm.

So 48.53 bhp + 15% loss is aprox 55bhp.

Is alittle bit lower that I would like, but I have only had a small amount of tuning time, due to the mini needing to be else where.

I have tuned it abit rich to help stop any pinking, but will finish tuning once I have more free time.

I will post up the power run graph tonight.

the whole percentage approach to losses is nonsense , use 20 bhp for a straight cut box ,and 24 for a heli ,and try it that way .they vary but not a lot unless thers a problem .i've owned and run a rolling rd ,and done a fair bit of hands on research on this .
gosh ,that sounded a bit assertive .!!

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

The Bosh injector 0280 150 682 is a 511cc injector

Check the atatched document on EFi Minis forum. You will find a link to that forum in the links section of this forum.

Helical transmissions/ driveline are as Robert says, somewhere in the region of 24 to 28bhp losses at worst

I too have done some hands on research on the SPi

http://efi101.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10...=asc&highlight=

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=74391

thers a couple of threads on it all .
regards robert

Edited by robert on 14th May, 2008.

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

As said before I am not worried about power at the fly, I am only intrested in what power gets to the road, as that is what matters.

Anyways heres the graph from the power run.

Edited by Mad Professor on 14th May, 2008.

std 998 A+, g295, MD266, RHF4, 109hp @0.8bar/5400rpm

Sprocket: You say that the bosch 0280 150 682 is 511cc/min, at what pressure is this?

Thanks for your time.

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

The 511cc is 1bar, however, that was overlooked when the chart was drawn up, and the flow rates for different injectors were bundled into a single column titled cc/min at 3bar. Just because it says three bar doesnt mean its correct. If you take the fact that the max you will get out of that injector is around 80 -85bhp on the MEMS, you can then work back using one of those calculators. from that at 85bhp this injector has a duty cycle of 60%. This is a value Rover seem to use. I know this, because when i ran my 100bhp SPi on a programable ECU set up as close as I could to how the MEMS controlled, i could get more out of the same injector.

All SPi injectors are rated at 1 bar. If you are saying that the chart lists the flow at 3bar for these injectors, why would this be when they are never intended to run at those pressures., Like I said, just because its in print doesnt mean its right.

I can also confirm the acuracy of the SPi injector flow rates listed, as i had my K14 16v SPi injector cleaned and flow tested, and the results were pretty close to those listed.

Max transmission losses when looking at a dyno plot relate to the point at max power. A dyno that calculates losses on the run down, from that you can clearly see that these losses are less than the loss at max power.

Edited by Sprocket on 15th May, 2008.

Hi. I am new to this site. I am having a 1998 model Mini cooper with distributer less engine with autogear box. recently I bought a megasquirt 2 and its on its way from USA. . Can someone explain me before I start the project what are the additional spatrs I need and. Since I dont have a CAM sensor on my mini do I need to install one? please help me with thw latest successful codings.

The late model Jap export cars were a funny mix. They use what looks like an mpi block. They used the spi injection manifold but were distributorless. That means that it uses the very same 36 -4 trigger pattern of the mini mpi or the rover k series.

It should be a fairly straight forward affair ti get it running on megasquirt but you will need to modify the stepper motor slightly

Welcome,
Are you planning to have single or multi-point injection?

1275 N/A Sprite, 998 T2 Turbo Mayfair
1275 EFi Turbo

Ancient post excavation, you might be better starting a new post.

If you are aiming for single point (wet manifold) on the MS2 you don't need a cam sensor.

As Colin (Sprocket) says, the idle valve will need modifying (or throwing away for something with a normal bi-polar stepper motor) for an MS2 to work it properly.

If you want to run the MS2-E siamese sequential code, you must install a cam sensor.

On a normal MPI block it goes in the fuel pump hole but needs a standard MPI cam to work it.

But it gets a lot more complicated with MS2 if you want fully sequential.

You have to modify the daughterboard for fully sequential and you have to add an additional input circuit for the MPI cam sensor because it is a VR sensor and the "standard" MS2 second input only accepts square waves (ie, Hall or Opto).

There is lots of info on here how to do it but you really need to be good with DIY to have fully sequential on an MS2.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Actually, the MS2 card modification is likely not needed on normally aspirated engine since it could use only 2 injectors without a need for staging. So the standard drivers would be enough but the injectors themselves need to be big enough.

http://www.jbperf.com/

Ooops,

Sorry Jean, my bad.

Of course it can run fully sequential - in siamese mode - without the daughterboard mod, but it still needs the cam sensor for siamese fully sequential.

The daughterboard mod is for 4 channel on normal engines or staged siamese on A/B series.

Sorry, forgetting my past..

But the input mods for a second VR sensor on a standard MS2 (V3.0) will still be required unless the second sensor is hall or Opto.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

I think it depends on what the original poster wants to achieve. He already has a functioning SPI injection system.

lets also not forget the main reason why rover fitted the SPi manifolds in the first instance..... The auto gearbox kickdown linkage.