Cyclone ECU
Turbo Mini Forums

Other than John is anyone using one of these?

John, if you are reading this will you be at Malvern tomorrow?

Hello Rob - I don't think there is anyone else on here using one yet, you're right they are on my minis.

there are a lot of race/rally cars with Duratecs running them and one of the most brutal escort turbo's on the road - Christian from APT.
I'll not be at Malvern tomorrow

Anything specific you wanted to know?

cheers

John

If Carling made Mini engines
it would probably be like this one!

will wait for Rob to reply but i have some questions

Get a cup of tea before reading!

I'm currently looking at ECU options, with the Omex 500 / 600 being my favorite at present, but I'm looking to see what's out there before spending any money.

I was hoping to find someone who's running one on a Mini to see what they thought before launching into the technical questions but it looks like I'll have to skip that stage and go straight to the technical stuff.

I better say what I'm planning on using it for, This is my Mini which I'm building primarily for Sprinting & Hill Climbing and will be running a 998 turbo lump. Initially I want to use the ECU purely to run the ignition but I want to have the ability to change to EFI at a later date, probably experiment a bit with the 5 port head before going down the K Series route (I'm pretty sure I've mentioned to you about my very long term engine plans).

Despite a good deal of searching this is the only info I can find on the Cyclone ECU, if you have any more info could you post a link to it as it may save you from having to answer a lot of my questions.

Now the questions:

1) What is the difference between the three different ECUs? Is it purely what maps they got loaded or does the hardware differ? And can one (ie the “All A Series”) be reconfigured to act like a different ECU (ie the “8V K Conversion)?

2) Are the injectors batch or sequential or semi sequential in two or more batches? (I’m sure you can guess the follow on questions)

3) Does it have a built in wide band controller or does it require external wide band controller?

4) Is the ignition map, TPS with MAP correction, MAP with TPS correction or either? And can you have temperature & starting correction?

5) Would I be right in assuming that traction control monitors the speed of the two front wheels and kill / retards the timing if one wheel starts to slip or is there more to it than that?

6) A bit more info on the power shift option would be great.

7) Is it capable of boost control? (I can't see it listed on the page I linked to)

8) Is it capable of data logging control? (again I can't see it listed on the page I linked to)

9) Is it capable of boost control? (again I can't see it listed on the page I linked to)

10) Is a TM discount still available?

Edited by Rob H on 16th Mar, 2008.

It’s probably a good idea if I explain the philosophy and background behind the SC Mini ECUs:



Almost all other aftermarket ECUs are geared towards a full DIY approach and we think that this aspect of the market is well covered. Our products are different in that we aim to supply a system that is ‘plug and play’ for your car. This is why our ECU connectors are proprietary, not available to purchase, and we only provide complete wiring harnesses. Although this may seem a little restrictive, our experience shows that 99% of problems with engine management systems are caused by the wiring. So we supply a high quality complete engine harness at a good value price and this removes a lot of the hassle for everyone.



The ECU itself is extremely powerful, think more in terms of Motec, Magneti Marelli and EFI Technology systems, than the more basic systems such as MBE, Omex, Emerald, MegaSquirt etc. This is obviously good for us as we can meet everyone’s requirements, but also makes it very complex to calibrate properly and the professional interface hardware and software is expensive. It is worth noting, at this point, that the Mini market is the only market to which we sell our ECU to customers directly. This is mainly to offer a high quality complete solution for our ‘K’ conversion kits that matches the high quality of the rest of the components. Our usual clients are engine builders and manufacturers who are prepared to invest the money required to purchase the interface hardware and the time to be trained in how to use the software properly. Or to pay us to do it for them!



So, back to the Mini products, basically we put in the hard work beforehand so that you don’t have to. Our ‘K’ conversion ECU packages include everything you need, so you can just plug it in and forget about it. The only connection to the rest of the car is literally the 2 wires for permanent and ignition switched power. It is pre-mapped and we have completed all the cold start, idle, transient and emissions calibration work that takes lots of time, especially if you are new to it all. We believe this is what most of our customers are looking for and it is proving to be very popular.



Having said all this, we are not ‘locking’ the ECU access from the customer. We are in the process of developing a low cost CAN – USB interface and free PC software that will give access to all the major stuff that you would want to change. We expect this to be available from next month, at least as a Beta, and it won’t cost more than £80. So that way, if you modify your car in the future, you can retune the spark, fuel, rev limits etc for the new engine spec. This software will be much easier to use than our professional editing tool and it’ll also be a useful for diagnostics.

We publish a standard CAN data export list which is publicly available. In layman’s terms this means that our ECU will ‘talk’ to lots of Data Logging systems and Displays from manufacturers such as Motec, AIM, RaceTech, Digitek, 2D etc. SC also have our own CAN 4-line LCD dash-display with sequential shift lights, which only costs £150, and are soon to launch a very exciting full colour TFT display system, so watch this space!



On to the questions:

1) What is the difference between the three different ECUs? Is it purely what maps they got loaded or does the hardware differ? And can one (ie the “All A Series”) be reconfigured to act like a different ECU (ie the “8V K Conversion)?



It’s simply the calibration that’s loaded, all the Mini Cyclone ECUs are the same.


2) Are the injectors batch or sequential or semi sequential in two or more batches? (I’m sure you can guess the follow on questions)



If you do not fit a camshaft position sensor, then it’s semi-sequential, else it’s fully sequential. All our Mini-kits so far have been semi-sequential. A camshaft sensor could be mounted in the distributor on an A-series; the distributor isn’t used with our system as we supply the Ford 4 post ignition coil. On a 5-port engine, I would strongly recommend a sequential 4 injector setup. On an 8 port or twin cam engine, it isn’t really necessary unless you’re very fussy about part-load hydrocarbon emissions!

3) Does it have a built in wide band controller or does it require external wide band controller?

An external wideband controller is needed, recommended is the Innovate LC-1/LM-1 or NGK Powerdex.


4) Is the ignition map, TPS with MAP correction, MAP with TPS correction or either? And can you have temperature & starting correction?



Either. Yes, there are full environmental compensations (there are over six thousand calibration parameters!)

5) Would I be right in assuming that traction control monitors the speed of the two front wheels and kill / retards the timing if one wheel starts to slip or is there more to it than that?



It’s quite complicated as there’s a full PID controller targeted on a variable slip level which is a function of true vehicle speed and engine load, or can be driver selected. We use a combination of fuel cut and spark timing changes to modulate the engine torque.

6) A bit more info on the power shift option would be great.



The power shift is for sequential transmissions. When the shift lever is moved, sensed by a linear potentiometer, strain gauge or switch, the ignition is cut for a programmed amount of time. This is typically around 120-150ms, enough to allow the transmission to be unloaded and the next gear to be selected, before power is restored. It enables extremely fast full throttle shifts, without using the clutch.

7) Is it capable of boost control? (I can't see it listed on the page I linked to)



Yes it has full PID closed loop boost control.

8) Is it capable of data logging control? (again I can't see it listed on the page I linked to)



See above, we export a standard CAN data list which all good data logging systems can accept.

9) Is a TM discount still available?



Yes, for now we are still offering 12% off the cost of the ECU. But the harnesses are built to order, so we cannot offer a discount on these, unfortunately.

If Carling made Mini engines
it would probably be like this one!

Thanks for the reply, I think I'm going to have to re-read it a few times for it all to sink in.

John,

Thanks for taking the time to provide me with such a detailed reply, and I've got to say it is an impressive bit of kit. However for what I am doing it is potentially overkill and I could see myself becoming constrained by technology. Once again thank for all the information, remind me to buy you a beer or two the next time I see you.

Rob

Rob, would you have a link on a Cyclone description ?

std 998 A+, g295, MD266, RHF4, 109hp @0.8bar/5400rpm

http://www.specialist-components.co.uk/cnb...mgLib-viewImage

If the ECU just needs the ground and 12v connecting how does it work with connecting to all the injectors,tps,map,clt sensor,IAT sensor etc etc?

Hi,
The Cyclone is only available with a fully built engine loom, at extra cost.
So with the ECU and the loom you only need to power up the loom and it does the rest
Cheers,
Gavin :)

VEMs Authorised Installer / Re-seller. K head kits now available!

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Visit www.doyouneedabrain.co.uk

My Mini build diary

the more i think about it the more sense it makes..

i hate wiring with a vengeance anyway..and with todays petrol prices it sound just increasingly sensible as it is only x amounts of fill ups.. (good way to justify stuff for myself)

i guess it is possible but can you run
staged injectors ?

one small port injector then a second (bigger or the same) mounted further away before the throttle plates?

Trying to plan waaay ahead and make the build as future proof as possible and include everything the first time.

That sir, is not rust, it is the progressive mass reduction system

http://aseriesmodifications.wordpress.com/

yes staged injectors are possible, the software would need amending to suit - a few hours work

JK

If Carling made Mini engines
it would probably be like this one!

so pretty much the ECU can do anything with a minor rewrite?

its not your average couple of diodes in a tupperware box.lol!

my turbo K will get it warmed up in terms of functionality but not breaking a sweat by any means

If Carling made Mini engines
it would probably be like this one!