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Home > A-Series EFI / Injection > Injector timing question ..

Bat

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Bermingum

Hi,
Take a look at the graph below, it's not mine *wink*
If I read it right, can we use Jeans mid pulse timing code and a fixed injection timing of 20 degrees BTDC?
If Jeans mid pulse code spreads the injector opening time out the middle, I think I've read that right, meaning we would keep the injector open between the blue and pink lines giving us the best possible chance to get the fuel into the engine.
I 'm sure I read somewhere this was how Rover did it, and could explain the positioning of the missing teeth on the MPi flywheel?
Feel free to shout up telling me I'm talking out of my .....



Cheers,
Gavin :)

Edited by Bat on 5th Mar, 2007.

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RogerM

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I like nice quiet girly Minis

Cheltenham, Gloucestershire

You would start with something like that sort of timing and work from there but the actual value would depend on the cam and cam timing, injector position relative to the valve (and probalby the throttle butterfly too) and maybe a few other parameters.

That is what we would have to work on to develop the code ... which I am still up for doing if you are .....

In reality you'll most likely end up with different timing on each cylinder and the fixed timing may well become a table based on RPM etc. too as there are both fixed times (injector opening / closing times etc.) and variable times (fuel travel time to the valve etc.)

There is quite a lot to do with this to get it right and although the grail would be a "one setting does all" I'd not be suprised if it was individual to each engine build. Once we have the algorithms sorted we should be able to calculate a "near enough" compromise to allow an engine to run well enough for the rest to be optomised on the dyno.

Edited by RogerM on 5th Mar, 2007.

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On 27th of Sep, 2007 at 12:45pm Jimster said:

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jbelanger

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Montreal, Canada

On 5th of Mar, 2007 at 10:30am Bat said:
Hi,
Take a look at the graph below, it's not mine *wink*
If I read it right, can we use Jeans mid pulse timing code and a fixed injection timing of 20 degrees BTDC?
If Jeans mid pulse code spreads the injector opening time out the middle, I think I've read that right, meaning we would keep the injector open between the blue and pink lines giving us the best possible chance to get the fuel into the engine.

That's the main reason why I implemented the mid-pulse algorithm in the code: to see if fixed timing would work. But as Roger said, it would probably need to be established for each individual engine depending on the configuration (cam, intake manifold, injector position and number,...)

The issue about the opening and closing time is partly taken into consideration because I take the computed time pulse minus the opening time and that is what is centered for timing purposes. When testing has started, maybe we can refine this with another constant time value.

By the way, I haven't received even one request for the siamese code for bench testing. I know that some people are getting ready for testing and I'll do some more soon when I receive my scope but I can't do it all and the more testers we have the faster we can progress with this.

Jean

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TurboDave16V
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Point made Jean... I'm slacking here I admit....

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RogerM

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I like nice quiet girly Minis

Cheltenham, Gloucestershire

Hint taken ..... Life is becoming more normal so will get back to it soon.

Every day is a school day ...........

How fast and how expensive ...... the same question...

On 27th of Sep, 2007 at 12:45pm Jimster said:

why do you you think I got a girlfriend with small hands?


dhaines

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Denver, Colorado

Jean, im still waiting for a large wad of cash to come my way to purchase a ms and stim to help in the testing. hehe, once Ive got my ms and the stim I can help the bench test. The one thing I do have is an ancient oscilloscope, go figure.

"sorry, Jedi mind tricks don't work on retards" Mediocre Films 2008


Bat

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Bermingum

Hi,
Roger, spoke to the engine dyno guy, he said it costs him around £250 a day to run it! *surprised*
Cheers,
Gavin :)

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RogerM

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I like nice quiet girly Minis

Cheltenham, Gloucestershire

How long is a day for him? If he's willing to run it for 24 hrs for £250 we can make some serious progress. If it's 8hrs then I can probably get us RR time for less than that ...

Every day is a school day ...........

How fast and how expensive ...... the same question...

On 27th of Sep, 2007 at 12:45pm Jimster said:

why do you you think I got a girlfriend with small hands?


Bat

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Bermingum

Hi,
I'll have to see if there's a special rate for annoying bloke down the road (me) LOL!
Cheers,
Gavin :)

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RogerM

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I like nice quiet girly Minis

Cheltenham, Gloucestershire

Do that mate, an engine dyno is THE place to do this sort of work.

After the Riv run I'll be available. Before I'll be trying to get the car ready ... if I don;t I'll be sleeping in the kennel until the 2008 event :(

Every day is a school day ...........

How fast and how expensive ...... the same question...

On 27th of Sep, 2007 at 12:45pm Jimster said:

why do you you think I got a girlfriend with small hands?


Bat

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Bermingum

Hi,
Think you best get the car sorted, or I can see you with Rover tag hanging from your collar! LOL
Cheers,
Gavin :)

VEMs Authorised Installer / Re-seller. K head kits now available!

WB/EGT gauges. Click here for customers write-up

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