Project "Marginal gains..."
Turbo Mini Forums

yes exactly.

i would imagine they are talking about a chargcooler with sub ambient ice water as the cooling medium.

Edited by robert on 18th Oct, 2017.

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

A minor milestone as it appears the desire to keep Mini Special arches is still on the cards, the panel gaps are awful but close enough for what needed to be done. I want to keep them as they were the only arches fitted as standard prior to Sports pack.



I still have to reduce the camber slightly as it was above what I wanted at the nominal ride height.



It is shown here at full bump so it's not quite as narrow as it appears. the fixings are just for the mock up. The only remaining problem is how it will look at normal ride height with Mini Special arches as the tyre to arch gap may look too big with this type of arch.

In order to keep the track this narrow and use these tyres I have had to compromise the amount of steering lock by about 10mm of rack bar travel but it is still more travel than if I had used the Mini rack with this setup, so an acceptable compromise in my opinion. The limiting factor is the cam belt side tube coming down from tower to the front of the subframe.

I have revised the radiator positioning again but won't bore you with any pictures until I have really decided this time otherwise I'd be posting pictures of a new layout every other week.

Cheers

Edited by Aubrey_Boy on 8th Jul, 2017.

I must feel I am getting close as I have started to pull the wiring loom stuff together again and I need to integrate the turbo related stuff that I hadn't planned for.

I started with this:



I forgot when I last left it all I was setting it up to use the std GM engine ECU so I didn't tie the SQ6 up as it was a fairly std engine spec.

So I have got to add, DBW, boost control, all the EGTs, a few more sensors for TC and LC, some AIT type NTC thermistors as I want to look at the delta temp across the intercooler / Charge cooler.

The EGT stuff:





Accels and yaw:



Some of it all together:



The Comms stuff:



As I plan to start setting up the sensors and a broad scheme for a base map.

Pectel is a little strange as you have to switch between what are called metafiles to go from a NA base type map to a Turbo type map, normally Pectel / Cosworth have to do this as a lot of the available algorithms / strategies are not present in an NA metafile like Anti Lag etc...

About the only decision I am 100% on cooling wise is the pipe size, dash 20. I will use Wiggins in and around the turbo and won't see much relative movement but silicone everywhere else due to engine movement.



And I needed to get an actual air filter as the space available in the RF inner arch is tight with everything else in there so I bought the physical unit I plan on using, I will have a wheel arch liner of types as I know I need to protect the filter, it will be relatively high up as well.



Even knowing the dimensions of the filter when I ordered it, it still looks massive in the flesh...

Cheers

Edited by Aubrey_Boy on 8th Jul, 2017.

would you please include in your thread the retail prices for all this kit so we can all feel better about our cars

Edited by robert on 18th Oct, 2017.

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

Hi Robert,

Not as much as your dyno I'm sure

The non Mini specific stuff I haven't paid anything like retail, but anything Mini specific it's the same retail as anyone else pays.

The SQ6 is an obvious candidate for costs, I used to work with Pectel / PI Research , most of the cars / projects used their stuff and I wanted a data logger for my own external projects. The higher level Pectel ECUs have a crazy number of Analogue and Digital channels and work out a lot cheaper than the PI Research data loggers. I have used the SQ6 for quite a few R&D type projects and it's paid for itself several times over... Anyway retail prices, Pectel stuff never used to have any retail outlets but there are a few now, the first one from a Google search;

http://rrrshop.co.uk/pectel-sq6-103-p.asp

With all the options, data logging memory, TC, DBW, dual Lambda it is listed as £2850 +Vat I think they were nearer to £4k a few years ago. All of the necessary hardware / software is present in the ECU, you just pay to 'unlock' the features.

When you look at the cost of any commercially available data loggers with this many analogue and digital channels and logging rates, PWM, Bridge, stepper motor, k type etc Before you even think of it as an engine ECU.

The wiring stuff, I used to make my own looms for test rigs, breakout boxes for generic sensors etc and the became good friends with a Motorsport sparky who basically showed me how to build them. He retired... and I inherited a lot of kit (wire, heatshrink, connectors) as he just wanted a clean break and he emigrated.

The cheapest Autosport type connectors start at £30 or so but quickly get the wrong side of £100, I use what I have which means sometimes they are bigger and largely unpopulated as a result.

http://www.m-cal.com/Products/list/Connect...tors/AS-Series/

There are a few crimp tools which I borrow when I need them as they are too expensive, mainly the Autosport type terminal crimps.

The Comms lead is around £300 from Pectel, so I made my own (I have been borrowing one for about 5 years!) it cost about £30 in the parts that I didn't have. I simply couldn't afford to pay retail for Pectel stuff, the Lambdas they use are about £500 each

The Wiggins stuff shown, the dash 20 ones are £37 +vat each just for the clip and doesn't include the ferrules you weld on the pipes, not sure how much the ferrules are but I have quite a few sizes so they cost nowt. I looked at using them on the boost pipes but they are over £100 each just for the clip! The ones shown here are secondhand and ex Mallock, but I picked the tidiest ones I could find.

Cheers

Edited by Aubrey_Boy on 11th Jan, 2015.

looms looks as shoddy as the rest of the build lol

This really is a learning curve to show how this should be done. Awesome job.

I've spend many times banging my head against the wall with pectal ECU's, wish I new of you 12 months back!

Team www.sheepspeed.com Racing

blimey, i was only kidding!

but thank you for the input .

ps ,.if you have any need for any connectors , i have a very few f1 bits that might fit something ,mainly off the clutch release mechanisms and gearchangers.

Edited by robert on 18th Oct, 2017.

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

Expensive - yes
The absolute dogs bollocks - yes

In the 13's at last!.. Just

Some lovely wiring you have there!

Must get round to sorting mine out.

I spent a weeks trial at m-sport and they use all of those connectors. I spent the week building small fan looms and stuff along those lines. I also encounter them at work (army) but it's normally repairs I do rather then building wiring harnesses etc. PTA when you have to repair a 16 pin plug for example.

Thanks for all the kind comments, as usual things look better in photos than in the flesh

Jim,

Pectel wise I am no means an expert but have a good friend who tolerates my endless questions, the older Pectel stuff (T6 etc) in particlar is not that easy, everything is DOS based and Pectel have a habit of focussing support on current stuff, usually forcing you to upgrade. I use PI 'Caltool' (Windows based - yay!) for mapping / setup work and PI Toolbox for data logging analysis and find it much more user friendly, especially setting up sensors etc...

It is likely you were wrestling with 'DeskPro' for any mapping and there are seemingly hundreds of keyboard shortcuts (which I can never remember) in order to get around quickly.


Robert,

Please be kind to the bears...

I did think you were being tongue in cheek but I know what you mean, it looks like a lot of expensive stuff. Ironically when I first started looking at getting a data logger I gave up thinking it was just too expensive and was close to buying an Emerald / Omex 600 etc (What I can afford retail wise) and just accepting that I would only be able to log a limited amount and only with a laptop connected. A colleague suggested I see what I could get through work / Pectel and I ended up with an SQ6.

I think some of my choices can seem a little random sometimes but it is often influenced by what I can get, the engine bits are going to hurt though as I don't really know anyone in this area... The Wiggins are a good weight saving though when you add up the weight of silicone hose, jubilee clips etc compared to all ally tubes and just the Wiggins clips and there are usually quite a few used on one thing or another - just need to be careful about using them when there is too much relative movement otherwise they are pretty bullet proof (They don't tend to fail themselves but you fatigue the ally pipes at the weld usually if there is too much movement).

Thanks for the offer on the connectors, I'll happily make a donation to the 'Save the Bears' fund as you can never have too many shiny connectors

I should rename the thread to "My surrogate R&D project"

Hazpalmer,

So they lured you up to the 'back of beyond' ; Yeah I have a few 55 pin Autosports which I hopefully won't have to repair or revisit, my personal hate is the 'Comb' connector on the ECU, 88 pins of pure pain especially when it's nearly full and has repair loops and splices to squeeze into the connector body!



Cheers

Edited by Aubrey_Boy on 8th Jul, 2017.

As I mentioned when Cossie Rick asked if I had considered charge cooling... I had... at the end of last year I went for a chat and look at what they had available off the shelf or were willing to make.

Lots of interesting discussions, they have both air to air and water to air coolers so have no real axe to grind either way as I realise there are pros and cons for either, it is mainly a question of packaging in my case rather than the design philosophy of either route.

One of the first things I needed to try and figure out was the sort of weight differences between comparable setups which isn't as straight forward as it sounds because until you properly mock up what will actually fit it is pointless just weighing off the shelf parts which are never going to package, so a certain amount of weight scaling is required to predict what each part will likely weigh.

The high output Bosch water bump is 1.0kg again lighter than I expected as it's essentially the same weight as my 044 fuel pump despite being visually 'bigger'.



I have done the initial mock up with an off the shelf water/air heat exchanger, it's not the same as the ones I typically see listed by those selling charge cooling kits, it's the next size up, the core is 270 x 310mm and weighs 1.3 kg



The charge coolers I looked at weighed between 1.3 and 2.0 kg for the flow capability and beyond that I needed.

What did surprise me was a lot of the air to air heat exchangers I have looked at are pretty heavy so it's not as clear cut as I expected.

But the fact that I can pretty well split the car into two distinct sides hot and cold with a charge cooler is still very appealing

As always still pondering though

Cheers

Edited by Aubrey_Boy on 8th Jul, 2017.

and the weight of the water inside too.

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

Personally with all of the effort put in for this build an open air filter seems a waste, can you not run one of the enclosed filters? Less chance of heat soak and could run it off rad/ic ducting for the cold air feed.

Drives
-Ford S-max Mk2 Ecoboost
-Rover 100 VVC #2 - track project

Searching is all you need on TurboMinis

Edited by Aubrey_Boy on 8th Jul, 2017.

So I am at the point where I have got to take a step into the darkness and start to spend money on the engine side of things, today was mostly spent deciding these. I have to specifiy / purchase, injectors, COP, CR, charge cooling, boost related stuff, DV, IM design etc... as they all need to be kicked off and I have little real appreciation of any them. So most have now been decided.

The 3 port boost management solenoid thingy:



Pierburg OEM, hardly ground breaking but effective



Injectors will be in the 500 cc/min region based on the envisaged output.

Charge cooling is looking too heavy to be honest so more likely A2A despite restrictions

DV will be OEM so boring plastic rather than any Forge type bling

To try and make up for my other choices I need to save weight elsewhere.

I hate photographing Carbon due to reflections...

Pre preg CF bonnet (not yet trimmed), I haven't fitted the hinge mtg angle yet but the bonnet is comfortably below 600g including these:



Pre preg CF Door card material, they are 500g each before I trim them to the actual size so probably sub 450g as full door cards



Thanks to Steve W for making these, it's been a while since I had access to proper pre preg CF and the resultant weight savings, but these are as good as it gets IMO

Plus a few other CF parts I had from back in the day,



These are intended as possible feeds to an inner arch mounted oil cooler with fan





Cheers

Edited by Aubrey_Boy on 8th Jul, 2017.

Oooo real carbon fibre! Very nice

I run a supercharger and I don't care the TB is on the wrong side.
VEMS + 12 PSI + Liquid Intercooler = Small Bore FUN!

Genuine?

In the 13's at last!.. Just

100% genuine?

Thought for a second there you were making pagani zonda wheels for your car . On that last pic.

you can do anything if you set your mind to it...
i rather blow it up winning than keep it together losing.

finish date set for project 1... march 2018

On 18th Oct, 2014 Rob H said:

On 30th Oct, 2012 Aubrey_Boy said:
I have to say even though this isn't a standard car it is much easier to do this conversion than the Midget - the body restoration is simpler and there is phyiscally less of it to replace and the panels are cheaper

It is a bit tighter for room though - the Midget engine bay is huge in comparison

Any photos or build thread for the Midget?

Edited by Aubrey_Boy on 19th Jan, 2015.

Just updating as far as the LiFePO4 battery testing goes, the other thread seems to have gone 'cold', I will update here with what is happening with my testing.

I have a proper charger now and plan to start again and give it another go, I have no idea how well charged etc the unit was before I tried it in the daily.

My testing so far doesn't inspire confidence, so I wouldn't spend any 'hard earned' just yet.

All of the bench tests (discharge tests) were conducted within the quoted specs of the battery, so I am not worried about any 'self inflicted' damage, the battery is still in good shape.

Just trying to see if the potential weight saving is realistic in my application, my daily is quite similar as far as starting a low CR engine is concerned.

Cheers

Edited by Aubrey_Boy on 20th Jan, 2015.

I think you need to be less scientific in your research.

I've done it already, its fine. Charge it up (normal trickle charger), put it on your car making sure earth is really good, use as normal.

I didn't get a lucky cell.