Project "Marginal gains..."
Turbo Mini Forums

Tom,

I have spoken to a few companies now and all of them were either reluctant or flatly refused, the problem is the insert.

Apparently both the anodising and some of the pre-treatments will actively attack any other materials such as steel / iron / Ti / Plastic that are inserted into the ally part. It can also attack the area where the dissimilar metals touch and dissolve the ally as well.

They can and have applied 'masks' to things like threaded inserts with some success to protect them but even this isn't 100% successful. Because the insert is so large and trying to mask / seal all edges is nigh on impossible.

But the main reason they say no is that if the insert material is attacked then all of the material removed ends up in the processing solution which can scrap all of the solution.

The only company that said yes basically said they would do the job in a tank which was due to have the solution replaced anyway and on there own so if it did dissolve it wouldn't screw any other work up.

They also said that the elements used in cast ally often leads to the finish and colour being inconsistent so basically offer no warranty on what it would look like or if it got scrapped

I declined

Nic,

Cheers I think I'll give that a go, heat em up, etch em, satin black em.

Cheers

Edited by Aubrey_Boy on 20th Sep, 2014.

i seem to recall there is a method of DIY anodising where one electrode is a sponge moistened with the appropriate solution. this could be applied only where required.

turbo 16v k-series 11.9@118.9 :)

Denis O'Brien.

That lathe an old 'lang'? I have a 3 phase Colchester student round head, 1956. She's a beauty!

It's a Monarch, it's got a 1906 plate on it but I think that is just the original patent plate date, I think it's 1920-30's.

It's been heavily modified / converted to take drive from a lower mounted elec motor as I say I imagine it originally took it's drive from overhead leather belts

Denis,

Thanks for the info as I say I think I will take the easier rattle can route for now

Cheers

Edited by Aubrey_Boy on 22nd Sep, 2014.

I don't know what you were using on the LMP cars... but Li-Ion has been pretty reliable for ages now. Maybe Li-Po?

It was on a hillclimb car, but I used it on the road. Had all the legal stuff on it. As well as electric fans and 2 pumps.

Never had a problem. Didn't have to leave it on trickle charge. Charged as normal off the alternator. Just a direct replacement. In fact I used a smaller one than the one I sent to you, it was 1kg.

A lot of people aren't willing to try them because they just don't believe that it will work... or they worry they'll explode. Much safer than drilling a load of holes in everything with no thought given to structural integrity though.

That is some very nifty turning , How the @$# did you manage to keep them the same profile?

And I was chuffed that I managed to turn up a new chuck backplate that fit tighly...

Edited by Sir Yun on 22nd Sep, 2014.

That sir, is not rust, it is the progressive mass reduction system

http://aseriesmodifications.wordpress.com/

Alex,

Where in the UK do you get these? If they do as you say I'll test one on my daily this week, indiscriminate drillage tut tut...

Hi Sir Yun,

You sorted that aero stuff out yet

Firstly we roughed out the fins without touching the main drum surface / skin

Then just used a radius tool (R5 ?) for the three angled surfaces which blended into the internal radii along with the compound slide set accordingly.

The external radius was done freehand with a med/coarse file to remove the last mm or so, hardly anyone got killed

Again not recommended

Cheers

Edited by Aubrey_Boy on 22nd Sep, 2014.

gosh that's some good filing on the external radius ... I could have sworn it'd been done on the lathe !

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

Hey Robert,

Yes as I say I don't recommend using freehand tools on a lathe, just regular files to remove the remaining lumps and then a bit of emery tainted with WD40 to smooth out the marks left by the file, the second of the two drums is visible here after a little bit of learning was exercised, lathe speeds etc...

I have to say that having seen a friend use a lathe to 'spin' a flat piece of metal into a variety of bellmouth shapes (Metal spinning) makes this exercise seemed relatively safe in comparison, but still not recommended.

Cheers

Edited by Aubrey_Boy on 22nd Sep, 2014.

It's all safe if its done safely!

The models for the aero stuff drive me nuts and flow through radiators/meshes is quite tricky. I will get it to work at some point .. ggr . Currently making some good progress on the a-series sim front though.

That sir, is not rust, it is the progressive mass reduction system

http://aseriesmodifications.wordpress.com/

Allan McD on the 16vminiforum used to sell them. Not sure if he still does. Can get them in a few places though.

http://www.allbatteries.co.uk/motorcycle-b...x14-mot156.html

Team www.sheepspeed.com Racing

Edited by Aubrey_Boy on 23rd Sep, 2014.

the meshes are very troublesome when they are stl based so my cunning plan to use an existing model was not so cunning. And i'm not much of a cad modeller yet .

and part of the trouble is the lack of documention of open source tools , so while you can model all kinds flow through a radiator, it is rather harder to find out how you get it to work . Probably less hard in Fluent :) but that is hard on the wallet.

Currently back to porting and 1d modeling ( getting some interesting insights and collaborating a bit with a proper pro in 2stroke pipes withsome wild ideas and Dr Neels made some extra tools for a-series engines.. so i'm now really confused :)) will post when i think itbis not bs.

enough hijacking allready :)

That sir, is not rust, it is the progressive mass reduction system

http://aseriesmodifications.wordpress.com/

Sir Yun,

No problem, not a hijack at all, the day that we can apply some reasonably detailed Aero based CFD from Open Source software will represent a big step forward in our ability to progress more considered solutions to these ducting / packaging problems.

Cheers

No apparently they don't have scales in Wales.

I still really want to find it out, because its is a lot lighter than an XE, by a long way.

...I'll spam some people on 16v forum.

Still trying, but here is an interesting thread.

http://www.corsasport.co.uk/board/viewthre...d=334376&page=2

62.2kg C20XE F20 - X16XE F15.

He kept on mounts & inlet manifolds etc. So still really interested to weight too bare engines against.

Whole lot of weight! Almost a 10% saving in a mini.

That's a huge difference, I would have guessed at half that.

Some weight will be in the box, but arguably you could run a F15 on an X18XE1 turbo, the weight will be low and the grip relatively low with road tyres.

SQ6M will allow you a different full load curve in each gear too. So I'd just put in place an OEM style torque limit in 1st and 2nd.

Nah, it's all propaganda created by people with small (erm...) engines.

I mean... 18kg weight difference between an F15 and a F20 gearbox, really, tut tut, pure fantasy

There's quite a few things going on at the moment to try and progress the suspension, try and save more weight and get all the other stuff I need.

Plating / Coatings

As the suspension is pretty well done I am trying to get all of the parts I intend on getting zinc passivated and Kephos'd ready as they tend to be done in batches for a fixed cost.



The handbrake lever will have the handle part Kephos'd black and the ratchety part will be zinc passivated, so I think I have finished what I am doing to it weight saving wise as I don't want to hack in to it again once it's been refinished. I am going to turn up some Ti rivets to reassemble it once plated.

Weight saving attempts

Starting to get together the various fasteners for parts I am certain on, some Gr5 (6AL-4V) Ti tapered socket head cap bolts and Flanged hex head, some Ally socket heads and nylocs and and various K Nuts to suit.



Just a few of them shown here as they all essentially look the same.

Got the last bit of drilling / milling done on the rear drums, a communication problem meant they didn't get countersunk so I had to freehand them which as shown is a little bit inconsistent.



I am close to 3.9 kg now for the complete rear brakes / hub assembly so I reckon within 1100g of the KAD disc setup assuming the weight they claim is correct.

Tyres

I originally planned to use Dunlop D84J trackday type tyres as I know them quite well and they are one of the few trackday tyres that have proper full circumferential grooves for water clearance, I made the mistake of buying just one tyre as that's what I needed at the time. The demise of Dunlop Motorsport UK this year has meant that getting a partner for it has proven somewhat elusive, I gave up and have chosen R888's, I know they will be worse in the wet with regard to water clearance but I will give them a go. The same size as previous mock ups 185/60 R13, a fraction heavier than the Dunlops but I need something as once all the plating is finished I should have a rolling chassis and need tyres to suit.





Weight / Inertia spreadsheet

I have been maintaining a Mass and Inertia spreadsheet with the aim of estimating the final total mass / weight distribution and inertia, it contains many estimates so I am still buying some parts which I am not yet anywhere near currently needing, but it means that they are bought and the money spent, plus I can get proper weights for parts and not just estimates.





I decided on 3 pt harnesses with road style buckles as these are lighter and less of a PITA to use than the FIA spec buckles to use. There are very few parts now that I am not pretty sure of the weights of, by my reckoning the rolling chassis that I am close to assembling needs to be sub 260 kg in order to get to sub 600 kg for the full car.

If my spreadsheet is correct I am pretty close to the 600 kg limit with the parts that I currently have, this hopefully will lead to being below this with further work (assuming I haven't forgotten anything too significant)

Cheers

Edited by Aubrey_Boy on 10th Jul, 2017.

as a quickie, im thinking of using m12 k nuts on the medusa engine connecting hub to donut bolts... are they are strong as normal nuts ,with their very thin wall?

Edited by robert on 18th Oct, 2017.

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM