Who's actually got this running on a 5 port???
Turbo Mini Forums

Team www.sheepspeed.com Racing

Team www.sheepspeed.com Racing

I'll get me coat

http://www.jbperf.com/

Thanks Jean, an answer which I can understand

Team www.sheepspeed.com Racing

Jim, shall i give you an evern simpler answer.

Stick with the carb!!!!!!!!!!

rick

http://www.jbperf.com/

An even simpler answer: The carb does a reasonably good job of supplying fuel when the engine wants it. Trying to have EFI supply fuel in the same manner is a challenge; trying to further improve performance to exceed that of a carb is more of a challenge.

So who is running the MS EFI then, and what HP has been achieved? I am suspecting Matt is not running MS given that he doesn't appear to have been discussing this with Jean, Rod or Paul prior to this post.

I don't think anyone is ever denying that the work Jean put into the programming, and the development efforts from Paul, Stugero and Rod will yeild 'superior' results in the end, with all other things being equal - but I guess that "equal" term is the key.

If anyone wants to build the absolute, ultimate 5-port to claim the HP crown from Matt, and the 1/4 mile crown from the perv, then the MS efi must surely be one of the things to be done. But given the time it takes to do it, and get it right; then anyone who wanted to be on the track, using their car and trying to win would start out with those things which can be done easier and cheaper - like spending money on a well matched specialised turbocharger, trying some different intercoolers, trying a few camshafts, playing with exhaust manifold length, hell - even bolting a set of KAD arms to a TDK beam and chipping out 20kg of soundproofing would probably be worth more on a 1/4 mile than a gain of 5, maybe 6hp the EFI would give over a carb after 90 minutes on the rollers.

Everything is - after all - a matter of opinion of course, and mine is a lot different from several years ago when I wanted for NOTHING else in the world, other than to have a highly tractable EFI A-series with craploads of power.
Now - I have a very different attitude which is blatantly obvious from anyone who used to read my EFI ramblings on here, and miniclassic in the years before TM; Strange I know, but spending my valuable spare time with my family - suddenly seems more important than spending countles hours eeking a few "free" HP out of my engine by switching from a wet manifold that releases 95% of my engines potential to something closer to 98% (or instead of spending 15 seconds adding 0.5psi of boost for the same basic "dyno" result)... I'm sure others are of the same thinking - ok maybe not with a Family - but a simple evaluation of desired & achievable results in a limited timescale.
As I say - if you want 98%, good for you... You earnt my respect (big deal I know) but so did Matt and Nic for altogether different reasons.

I concur almost completley. Obviously, you haven't beem married long enough. The garage is my sanctuary. Also I have 3 turbo a series cars, one with 7-ports, one with 5-ports and EFI and one with 5-ports and a carb.

Fastest 998 mini in the world? 13.05 1/4 mile 106mph

www.twin-turbo.co.uk

Why do people climb mountains ? Because they are there.

If we never left the cave, where would we be today.

Just my incite as why some people like to chose different routes. :cool:

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Sorry for the delay on this post folks Computer let go last night :)
Cough * Cough * spits out Moth balls,



the only Reason I am piping up is I now have relevant experience in this field after running a Bach fired injection system for the past 11 months at the Highest level in Irish Motor sport
in Early 2011 I installed SC Fuel Injection kit on my new Auto-test Development car, as some of you will know I have spared no expense or time building this car and for this reason I was not going to spare anything on the motor. The motor is an N/A 1440cc bored and stroked A Series runing one of Phil's heads and an SC Fuel injection kit. The Engine was sent to the lads to be fully maped in a Fixed engine dynamometer, we mapped it for best drive ability and not over all power. I did not ask for Dual AFR readings I did not ask for Temp readings I simply asked the lads to map it to be smooth and reliable,

Now a little about the competition,
We compete in to events in the car one is the Huston and the other is the Muster Championship, in both these events there is 6 top Minis running Top engines worth a staggering 12K each, they are a similar spec to us but for the Fuel injection system they all run HIF 44 and mapped spark.

Until we came on the scene last year there was nothing beating these guys, in our first few events we had teething problems but after a short time we fixed these and the wins started to rolling 3rd 4ths and 5ths at first then 2nds and 1st. our car has blistering acceleration, unrivalled throttle control and impeccable reliability. all the drivers and spectators comment on how the car behaves and sounds and none of the guys with carbs can match it,

After 140 tests and two gearboxes we striped the engine to find it perfect in every way, the pistions where perfect with little or no sighs of any over fuelling or lean burning, the Cylinder head was perfect with all valve seats clean and unpitted and all combustion chambers showing a nice light brown hue. this engine was never spared an Inch Reved to 8500 RPM every couple of seconds from sup 800rpm, and run on standard 95 unleaded.

So what am I getting at, well in my experience this system has worked faultless for us and I accept its probably not the ultimate answer to Fuel injecting the 5 port in fact it may well be quite a long way off but as a viable alternative to the SU, hell yes I would never put one of them dam thing's on an A series again If I had the choice and to this end I will explain why, the amount of people left in this world that cam properly tune a HIF 44 is so few and far between , and if you are lucky enough to find one of them and have you carb set-up by him and it is perfect as it can be with in a very short space of time it will be out of tune and with in an even shorter time it will be a long way out of tune where as with injection of any kind you have piece of mind of know than no matter how long you run the motor the fuelling will be doing exactly what it was the day you set it up.

Sorry for the hugely long post but I felt it important to back up the theory with some hard facts,

cheers load hope it helps,
Paul.

PaulH question for you. I've been doing some reading on dash pot oil and something about "acceleration enrichment" which i am assuming is something to do when you floor it.

How does the SC kit cope when you put your foot flat to the floor to accelerate; does it suffer from bogging down at all as how does it cope with no butterfly to bam fully open like a carb does?

slightly off topic i know.

but i agree with your statement about theory and hard facts.

You set accel enrichment in the software on MS and I assume on the SC too.

The sc throttle body does have a butterfly.

Indeed the SC TB does have a butterfly, just a very nice thin one, not clunky with screws in it like the SU.

The throttle pot is used to detect large/fast throttle openings, this triggers acceleration enrichment. All ECUs do it; if they didn't the dirveability would be crap.

Fastest 998 mini in the world? 13.05 1/4 mile 106mph

www.twin-turbo.co.uk

Im quite looking forward to mapping mine. There's alot more to it than a carb, but I still think it will be easier and the end results better

t@z as the lads have said it does have a butterfly which as Wil_h says is a lovely piece of engineering, and as every one has said the ECU copes with WOT using an acceleration enrichment map.

It is the primary reason we chose the Fuel injection over carb as it has a map to control this and not some sort of balancing act with oil,springs and dampers.

Paul is your car FI?

I run a supercharger and I don't care the TB is on the wrong side.
VEMS + 12 PSI + Liquid Intercooler = Small Bore FUN!

the Development Auto-test car is all right Graham

Hell this is going into one, I think we should all do our own things like we sort of have done, and if some want to take a years to do it that's just cool, and if some want to do it over 6 moths and are happy with the results that's fine as well. As with all the tuning on here, there is No right or wrong, just different ways, One thing I will say is Carbs are great :)

Best 1/4 mile 13.2 seconds @116 mph
First 5 port miniturbo to make over 200 bhp on a carb?
First 5 port miniturbo to make over 200 bhp on Injection?

http://www.mattwoodsphotography.com

Sorry I meant forced induction sorry

I run a supercharger and I don't care the TB is on the wrong side.
VEMS + 12 PSI + Liquid Intercooler = Small Bore FUN!

Nope it completely N/A no time for turbo spool lol