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Home > A-Series EFI / Injection > Inlet Manifold Design - Triple Injectors

Joe C

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Carlos Fandango

Burnham-on-Crouch, Essex

an you cram the injector right up the hole so it is vertually at the other end?

On 28th Aug, 2011 Kean said:
At the risk of being sigged...

Joe, do you have a photo of your tool?



http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.p...9064&lastpost=1

https://joe1977.imgbb.com/



Rod S

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Rural Suffolk

What angles have you actually achieved in, say, degrees off the horizontal (ie, relative to the inlet tract/port in the head) ???

And will they be held in solely by the fuel rail(s) - the same problem that I have with 3 dimensional angles......

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???


Rob H

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Formerly British Open Classic

The West Country

Looking good, got to admit I enjoy machining.

Are the two injector holes side by side parallel or are they angled outwards to stop the injectors hitting each other?

Isambard Kingdom Brunel said:
Nothing is impossible if you are an Engineer


Paul S

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Formerly Axel

Podland


On 20th Sep, 2009 mini13 said:
an you cram the injector right up the hole so it is vertually at the other end?


They are going to be quite close together, plus they will start to obstruct the port, plus the injector body gets a bit wider. Could be an option for v2.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."


Paul S

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Rod, the design is exactly as drawn^^^^^

The inlet tract is 15 degrees off the horizontal, after going through the flange horizontal.

The injectors are at 45 and 60 degrees from the horizontal.

The injectors are going to be held in entirely by the fuel rail which will be fixed back to the flange.

Rob,

The two injectors are parallel so a single fuel rail will do all four. No need to angle as the injectors are only 16mm diameter.

Injectors in flange:


Still need to drill the third hole in this one, but you get the idea.

Edited by Paul S on 20th Sep, 2009.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."


Rod S

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Rural Suffolk

On 20th Sep, 2009 Paul S said:
Rod, the design is exactly as drawn^^^^^

But the drawing had no measurements on it and I wasn't going to print it off and put a protractor on it..... :)

Two are angled much better than mine and the third one only slightly worse...

But at least you get two straight fuel rails with your narrow bodied injectors whereas I have to deal with multiple angles *frown*

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???


Rob H

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Formerly British Open Classic

The West Country

Blooming heck they're skinny, where did you find them?

Isambard Kingdom Brunel said:
Nothing is impossible if you are an Engineer


Paul S

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Formerly Axel

Podland

On 20th Sep, 2009 Rob H said:
Blooming heck they're skinny, where did you find them?


The ones pictured above are 600cc/min.

The paired ones are going to be 850c/min from the states.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/4-Siemens-M...eQ5fCarQ5fParts

Edited by Paul S on 20th Sep, 2009.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."


Paul S

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The view at the other end:



No sure how much I need to remove.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."


Rod S

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On 20th Sep, 2009 Paul S said:

No sure how much I need to remove.


I would suggest, just make sure the O ring is still on a parallel bit, ie, don't cut too far back up the injector hole to compromise the O ring, especially as the bit you will want to cut away is closest to the O ring.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???


Joe C

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Carlos Fandango

Burnham-on-Crouch, Essex

what stream are they, cone or pencil?

On 28th Aug, 2011 Kean said:
At the risk of being sigged...

Joe, do you have a photo of your tool?



http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.p...9064&lastpost=1

https://joe1977.imgbb.com/



Paul S

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They are cone according to rthe fiveomotorsport website.

Hence, I need to open out the area below the nozzles.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."


Paul S

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Formerly Axel

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Finished them off this morning:



Opened up the throat of the injector bores as much as possible:



Anyone know of a good aluminium glue?

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."


Andymini

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London

I would think a good quality (loctite) high temperature epoxy.


Paul S

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Formerly Axel

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On 26th Sep, 2009 Andymini said:
I would think a good quality (loctite) high temperature epoxy.


Thanks, there are also some good araldite products that may be of use.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."


miniminor63

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The oversills police

Oslo, Norway

what are you going to use the glue for?


Paul S

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Formerly Axel

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I'm thinking of glueing the runners, 38mm OD aluminium tube, into the injector bosses above.

The other alternative is EasyFix aluminium solder.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."


matnrach

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Advanced Member

Northamptonshire

I have used this before:
http://www.belzona.com/prod1k.aspx
Very good quality but quite expensive.


Joe C

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Carlos Fandango

Burnham-on-Crouch, Essex

why not tig?

On 28th Aug, 2011 Kean said:
At the risk of being sigged...

Joe, do you have a photo of your tool?



http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.p...9064&lastpost=1

https://joe1977.imgbb.com/



EssexSteve

556 Posts
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Post Whore

Wickford Essex

2nd stupid question,
why cant you just use 1 big injector to deliver the same amout of fuel as the 3 ?
steve


Rod S

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On 26th Sep, 2009 EssexSteve said:
2nd stupid question,
why cant you just use 1 big injector to deliver the same amout of fuel as the 3 ?
steve


Theoretically you could but,

1 - injectors over 1000cc get stupidly expensive,

2 - large injectors give a potentially poor idle (and bad emissions) because of the relationship between open/close time and actual fuel time,

and,

Jean has re-written the code so we can have staged injection, ie, a small injector for nice idle and low load performance, then bigger injector(s) for full power/boost.

Remember, we are talking about a very large injector total size anyway for a small engine because the duty cycle has to be kept so low.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???


Paul S

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Formerly Axel

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On 26th Sep, 2009 mini13 said:
why not tig?



I'm not brave enough. I could easily detroy the boss with my Tig skills on aluminium.

I'm familiar with Belzona, but not sure if it would make a good adhesive.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."


Tom Fenton
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Fearless Tom Fenton, Avon Park 2007 & 2008 class D winner

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Rotherham South Yorkshire

Be brave, you'll tig that in there dead easy.


On 29th Nov, 2016 madmk1 said:


On 28th Nov, 2016 Rob Gavin said:
I refuse to pay for anything else


Like fuel 😂😂


EssexSteve

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Wickford Essex

thanks rod, a little clearer now
steve


Paul S

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Formerly Axel

Podland

My main concern is the effects of temperature and petrol on any adhesive.

Araldite 2014-1 has good temperature and chemical resistance. It has a maximum lap shear stress of 5MPa at 140 degrees C.

140 degrees sounds like a reasonable maximum to expect in this application.

I've calculated the lap shear stress of the joint at only 0.2MPa, so should be a goer.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

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