Siamese Code Trial - Take Three
Turbo Mini Forums

Edited by Paul S on 10th Mar, 2009.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

On 9th Mar, 2009 Paul S said:

On 8th Mar, 2009 Rod S said:
Obviously I'm still a long way behind Paul

Yes, pull your finger out. I need some help here

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

I'm getting around 14.5psia MAP at WOT

For your purposes, you need to populate the tables for 90/95% MAP.

You will need big injectors to get the pulse width below 5ms.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Scanning the latest logs I can see WOT between 14.7 and 14.3 psia.

Your injector size calcs look about right. I'm seeing about 75 hp from a total of 750 cc/min injectors and pulse widths of just over 5ms which includes opening time.

If you can suck it down to 90% MAP then the effective pulse width should drop by 10%.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Thanks Paul, at least I know I'm going in the right direction....

Somewhat O/T but browsing "another" forum I came across this

http://www.mini-cooper-clubman.de/html/pro..._classic_m.html

Looks like someone else is copying MS but has at least recognised the need for a cam trigger.....

Are you aware of this Jean ???

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

That looks like the one covered in Mini Mag last year by Calver.

Just SPi so far.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Ooops, good point, I didn't read it that closely and misread trigger wheel for camwheel......

Perhaps I'd better crawl off back to the "other" forum.....

If it's controlled by Megatune though, it must surely be significantly copied from MS.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

I think that Megatune is very versatile and can be configured to read and write serial data to and from any ECU that fits a certain standard.

All the menus and displays are set up by the .ini file. Presumably the data sets that form the code variables and engine data are covered the same way.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

As mentioned, it's SPi only and it is a copy of MS1 (with some improvements to make it plug and play) and uses the unmodified MS1/extra code. They did that without getting approval but I put them in contact with B&G and hopefully everything is "legal" now. So, yes I did know about them :)

And Rod, did you really write that:

http://www.jbperf.com/

I knew I'd regret writing that - but you can't influence that input with the JimStim as the MAP sensor is wired onto the board - unless you know a better way than sucking and blowing :):):)

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Some people use a syringe. But sucking and blowing is what first comes to mind and it does work.

That's one more for misguided quotes.

Jean

http://www.jbperf.com/

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Do you have the probe plugged in? They act like pretty good antennae when not connected to anything.

Jean

http://www.jbperf.com/

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

that scopes state of the art compared to some we use at work!

i used to piss about with a old valve-based scope wiht exposed mains voltage screw terminals on the back and full of huge capacitors, when i was 13 .. how i never died i dont know, nowadays(now that i understand the dangers of useing such equipment) im to skared to even plug its nice brown bakelite plug into the wall.. that scope is decent!

turbo 16v k-series 11.9@118.9 :)

Denis O'Brien.

lol

i love valves me!

Well, It's not really that good....

I need to get my battery one working :)

Both injectors at 6000RPM WOT, full power (but without the small MAP correction).



Sorry, crap photo.

B channel still playing up but you see how close to overlap we are.

More interesting, the second pulse on the same injector seems to be weaker ???



This is just the A channel and it may be down to the scope but you can see the pulse/hold/PWM quite well (despite the scope...) and the second pulse seems lower voltage ???

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

How much time have you got between the 2 pulses? It might be a measurement artifact or something due to not having time to close completely. By the way, where are you taking the measurement?

Jean

http://www.jbperf.com/

Right, got the antique running a bit better



The pulses are about 4ms in megatune at 6000 RPM so 1ms between them.

It could be measurement issues (ie scaling, delay, etc) in the scope but the close time is down to MS... there are no injectors attached, this is purely looking at the outputs on the JimStim board. Both drivers appear to show the same.

The traces are just off JimStim, ie, MS outputs but with no load on the drivers.

(like I said, I'm a long way behind Paul...) :)

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Rod,

It's definitely an artifact from the scope. What you should see is that:


This was taken with my cheap USB scope. RPM is about 6200RPM and pulse width is about 3.8ms. The red trace is injector driver 1 and the blue trace is driver 2. And this was taken on the JimStim at the screw terminal and you see that it is a down going pulse since the driver grounds the signal and it goes up to 3.5 V since it's after the LED (which lowers the 5V about 1.5V).

Jean

Edited by jbelanger on 10th Mar, 2009.

http://www.jbperf.com/

My fault, had the gains set all wrong and hence I was looking far too closely at the wrong bit(s)

Display set the same as yours


Still got the artefacts (I'll assume they are for the moment as the scope is so old) and at 0.5V/division it's just over 3.5V going negative.

Then I've droped the gain slightly on one channel as I don't have two colours...


Then I've moved the timing form 90, 90 to 40, 130


and it does exactly as I expected :)

which obviously doesn't surprise me but it means I can now play with a few of the variables and get familiar with the code without freezing to death in the garage...

BTW I do like that USB scope, I've been thinking about getting one since my battery scope started playing up. Which make/model is it ???

Rod.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Rod that is really useful to see that the code is doing what it should.

I was starting to doubt given the problems I'm having.

I would like to see the affect of invoking the second VE table and the second Injection timing table so that you can change the duration and timing of the inner cylinder squirt.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

I'm sure it does exactly what it should but, as you know, I started off with mis-understanding even the basic settings!!!

That's why I've decided to do a lot of "playing" with a scope first so I can understand exactly what a change does to a setting or table instead of just assuming it does what I think the change meant (if that makes sense).

I'll try second VE and second timing later, I want to try and get the scope working a bit better first.

Unfortunately my battery one (which is playing up anyway) doesn't have a decent size display nor a USB connector.

EDIT - the other interesting one I want to try is the timing trigger setting as I'm assuming it is what gives the ability to grow the pulse forward, backward or 50/50 (with increasing load/pulsewidth) as my reading suggests that is how Leyland/Rover did it on the MPI.

EDIT 2 - a question for Jean.....
On the JimStim, what is the timing of the second (cam) pulse and, more importantly, is it constant under all conditions ??? I want to set the scope with its good channel on one injector (which will obviously still show me one inner and one outer) and put the second channel just showing the cam pulse as a reference point - but that will only help if it's a constant timing...

Edited by Rod S on 11th Mar, 2009.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???