Rod's build thread - new title - TSCi
Turbo Mini Forums

Quite close to the cast manifold then...

That's obviously a good place for being able to fit the sensors, and for the wiring but very close to the distance limit (from head) for the standard Bosch sensors perhaps ???

Did you consider heat sinks ???

Bosch have a recommendation for a very basic copper heat sink if you have to put the lambda cell that close to the head/manifold.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

On N/A Maniflow my wideband was even lower than on Paul's picture. Worked fine.
On turbo it's just in the exit turn after the turbo, looking up. It's a usual place on turbo engines, as close as possible to the engine. And there are lots of place there.

Edited by alpa on 28th Oct, 2008.

std 998 A+, g295, MD266, RHF4, 109hp @0.8bar/5400rpm

Interesting.....

I've seen lots of pics where people have mounted close to the turbo (including the elbow), or close to the engine, but when I researched this about a year ago (before ordering the wideband) I found lots of info suggesting that close to the engine (esp. a turbo) is far too hot.

I can't find all the links now but this is an example (see page 2)

http://wbo2.com/lsu/lsuinstal.pdf

I'll find all the other links later (I know I have them somewhere as I emailed them to a friend building a 400hp MR2 turbo at the time...)

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Or heat sink (page 8)

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/support...LC-1_Manual.pdf

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

I know they are a bit close, but I am getting consistant readings and have not damaged the sensors.

I have bought a new sensor to check the readings recently and that gave the same.

Having said that I've not done many miles and it is only for test purposes.

If I was going for a long term permanent install, then I would probably mount then just before the Y piece.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Mine's in the elbow and still working perfectly.

It gets checked against a WB in the exhaust on the RR and seems consistant.

That's the point really - it seems lots of people put them closer to the engine than "recommended" and don't have problems.

It makes you wonder how conservative the "recommendations" are...

The recommendations all vary a bit anyway, it seems the absolute values are (1) gas temperature at sensor and (2) boss/body temperature of sensor.

You can then only postulate what the distance is to get those temperatures within their allowable range.

Just one more thing for me to worry about......

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

i hink they are pretty conservative,

in the innovate manual i think it states 600 degrees max or somthing?

i'm positive for the same Bosch sensor i have seen othermanufacturers state 1000 degrees+ as a max.

There is a difference between turbo and N/A engines.
Look for
Probe MX6 626 IHI turbo exhaust elbow 02 O2 housing
on ebay.com. Ok, it's not a wideband sensor, however I'm not sure there is a big difference between near and wide band temperature range specs.
And I'm pretty sure you'll never get a hotter flow behind the turbine than in the N/A manifold.

Edited by alpa on 29th Oct, 2008.

std 998 A+, g295, MD266, RHF4, 109hp @0.8bar/5400rpm

Not much actual progress but all my bits have now finally arived to sort the two exhaust systems out.



The bits on the left are 2" stainless to replicate (but enlarge) the Metro downpipe. I couldn't find anywhere that could do both the required bend and flare the end to match the T3 elbow so I had a "reducer" sleeve made up that fits OVER the 2" at its small end and over the elbow at its large end - the angle of the transition is a near perfect match to the flare so I will simply machine off the large end !!!! That way I will get double wall thickness at the top of the downpipe and I will counterbore the elbow 2" for a couple of mm so I get location inside and out (just like the Metro twin cast manifold to downpipe connection).

The shallow bend is to get the Metro bit to match up,



I had both ends expanded (formed) do I can use the excess as sleeves to get over all the mismatch problems with 2" linkpipes.

Finally, I think this is where I'm going to fit lambda bosses,

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Little real progress,

Waiting for TechEdge wideband stuff from Oz.... (waiting 9 days so far so bound to be screwed by Customs / VAT / handling fees...)

Waiting for Clubman front so I can do some final measurements before dropping the front subframe - thanks to Nick and Brett's measurements (another thread) I decided to go flip front, I just want the exact measurements of the one I've "bought" before going any further with welding up the rest of the shell (waiting 6 days but from UK!).

Waiting for Metro (Mk1) radiator, again for exact measurements (3 days).

So I finally realised I'm not going to have this out of the garage before I need to get one of my others in to get a winter MOT so I decided, put the shell on a trailer so it doesn't need the subframes to move it about :)

My large 2 axle trailer is currently "occupied" with another "project" so i decided to order some bits to build a smaller one....



Ordered Sunday afternoon and arrived today..... I wish the others were as fast.

BTW, before anyone counts the bits, it was cheaper to order two single axle kits, rather than the minimum bits for two axles....

And you never know when you might need a spare jockey wheel, lightboard, tow hitch etc....

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Out of interest where did you get the trailer kits from & how much did they cost?

From here,

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/RPH-Trailer-Spare...9QQftidZ2QQtZkm

Go to "build your own trailer pack" in the shop. Over the weekend they had a 10% off sale on the bits I bought (looks like it's now ended) but I've used them before, very good.

EDIT - £271.50 inc delivery for all those bits - the suspension units and hubs are the most expensive parts.

Edited by Rod S on 18th Nov, 2008.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Next bit finally arrived today,



Plenty of cutting/sanding required to make it fit properly......


EDIT - then an hour later, this arrived,



Metro Mk1 NOS.

Just waiting on the stuff from Oz now....

Edited by Rod S on 19th Nov, 2008.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Exhaust now assembled for the N/A test engine



Transistion weld (mild to stainless) complete but others just tacked at the moment as I'm getting low on argon and want to do the turbo equivilant this evening.

I was quite surprised how small the MG Metro ports were in the "Y" piece...



EDIT - and here's the turbo one tacked up now,



Now to weld it all up fully....

Edited by Rod S on 20th Nov, 2008.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Looks nice... where did you get that braided expansion joint from?

The joint(s) were off eBay. There are several specialist aftermarket exhaust suppliers over here, both on eBay and the internet who sell them, and all the stainless sections, bends, sleeves etc. that I've used.

Prices vary tremendously though, I used three different suppliers and even with three lots of postage charges, it was cheaper overall than buying it all from one place !!!

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Have you used any Jetex stuff? I've used it on projects in the past - seems to be pretty good prices and decent quality http://www.jetex.co.uk/website/jetexcustomexhaustparts.php

I'd be interested to know of any other good suppliers as I'm going to need to build my own downpipe and exhaust shortly.

Not used Jetex but they came up on my search of the internet so I did look at them, but they didn't have quite what I wanted.

Another one I very nearly used (very helpful and good prices) was

http://ojzengineering.co.uk/page.php?page=100

In the end though, I used

http://www.pipewerx.com/

BUT, through their ebay shop,

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Pipe-Werx-Performance-Exhausts

I used them because they could do all the end forming I wanted inc. in the price.

For the flexibles, though.... NONE of the above, the prices are outrageous !!!
I just searched eBay and got some bankrupt stock, £4.50 each inc. postage.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Cheers for that Rod, prices look good on there, I'll have a serious look at their stuff.

TechEdge stuff now arrived,
Two controllers, LSUs, displays, various extra cable, connectors etc...



One (only) of the two kits openned up.



The PCBs look very good quality, cases well made too even if they are only plastic.

There's probably as much soldering/construction in just the one as the MS itself, so it's going to be like building two more MSs.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Something to do on these cold winter nights

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

On 24th Nov, 2008 Paul S said:
Something to do on these cold winter nights

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Looking good Rod!!!

How are you planing to mount your rad if you dont mind me asking?

http://ojzengineering.co.uk/page.php?page=100

these are fairly local to me and see they advertise in PPC.

if i ever get to needing a new manifold i'll be going over!