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 608 Posts Member #: 1106 Post Whore Hungerford, Berks |
1st Jan, 2020 at 08:16:30pm
On 31st Dec, 2019 hazpalmer said:
I think turbo nick on his rebuild tried a carbon fibre front end and didn't get on with so switched back to a metal one. I've just a little bit of searching, but have not come up with much. Any idea why he didn't get on with it? The Fibre Glass one piece I have on the Coupe was from Arc angels - it's not bad - I did add some aluminium strengthening across the bonnet and on the wings to stiffen it all up, but it fits OK. That said, I want to go to a 2 piece front end on this build, which I suspect would need more stiffening where there are no inner wings? It looks like it works out at around £500 for the parts to make a new metal front end (less bonnet). hmmm, decisions... ’77 Clubman build thread
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45 Posts Member #: 11153 Member |
1st Jan, 2020 at 08:48:28pm
I’ve used the mini spares two piece round front before. It you mount the front end well, like the sevens and migilias then it doesn’t wobble around at all.
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608 Posts Member #: 1106 Post Whore Hungerford, Berks |
3rd Jan, 2020 at 08:44:37pm
OK, thanks.
’77 Clubman build thread
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Site Admin  15300 Posts Member #: 337 Fearless Tom Fenton, Avon Park 2007 & 2008 class D winner & TM legend. |
3rd Jan, 2020 at 10:27:15pm
Flying along!
On 29th Nov, 2016 madmk1 said:
On 28th Nov, 2016 Rob Gavin said:
I refuse to pay for anything else Like fuel 😂😂 |
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 9317 Posts Member #: 59 First mini turbo to get in the 12's & site perv Herefordshire |
3rd Jan, 2020 at 10:51:43pm
Looking very impressive progress.
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 6745 Posts Member #: 828 Post Whore uranus |
4th Jan, 2020 at 09:42:41am
did you experience sufficient rigidity nic ? Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM |
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608 Posts Member #: 1106 Post Whore Hungerford, Berks |
4th Jan, 2020 at 10:31:13am
On 3rd Jan, 2020 Tom Fenton said:
Flying along! Have you got a spot welder, makes the welding quick and very neat. Unfortunately not Tom. I think maybe a bit of research needed, there are some cheaper and some more expensive, so I will look at the cheaper ones to see if they are any good. There are actually still a fair amount of panels left to fit which could make a spot welder of benefit. On 3rd Jan, 2020 Nic said:
Looking very impressive progress. Would you consider a two piece steel removable front? I have done this previously using a pre 76 front panel which you can bolt to the subframe in the usual area. The wings are welded to the front panel, and then I bolted (using M5s) to the top of the wings to the top of the inner wing (where it would usually be spot welded), and two angle brackets welded to the inside of the a-panel and wing with another bolt (M6) through these to hold it together. A photo of this would be much easier, I’ll have to see if I have one. The fixings weren’t obvious, but it was easy to remove. I have/ am also considering a 2 piece removable front. From what I can see, only genuine heritage panels exist for the clubman front, which makes it expensive – though I guess no more so that a quality composite 2 piece. My biggest concern will be the bonnet strengtheners: I am not sure I will have clearance under them for the x8 inlet manifold – but I’m sure I can replace the strengtheners somehow. Yes, photos would be very helpful if you could find some. Also, you specifically said pre 76 front panel – obviously there is a difference between the earlier and later panels, but from photo’s on the classic mini parts supplier websites, it’s not immediately obvious to me what it is. On 4th Jan, 2020 robert said:
did you experience sufficient rigidity nic ? Did you post this on the right forum robert? ’77 Clubman build thread
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 2629 Posts Member #: 1246 Post Whore Lowestoft, Suffolk. |
4th Jan, 2020 at 10:51:47am
The “later” heritage panel has a swage in the area where the MPI coopers had the radiator fan.
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608 Posts Member #: 1106 Post Whore Hungerford, Berks |
4th Jan, 2020 at 11:49:10am
On 4th Jan, 2020 shane said:
The “later” heritage panel has a swage in the area where the MPI coopers had the radiator fan. I can try and get a picture of mine when out in the garage this afternoon if you need one? Side repeater holes? They may be others? Shane Yes please, pictures would be good. ’77 Clubman build thread
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2629 Posts Member #: 1246 Post Whore Lowestoft, Suffolk. |
4th Jan, 2020 at 06:56:39pm
On 4th Jan, 2020 Graham T said:
On 4th Jan, 2020 shane said:
The “later” heritage panel has a swage in the area where the MPI coopers had the radiator fan. I can try and get a picture of mine when out in the garage this afternoon if you need one? Side repeater holes? They may be others? Shane Yes please, pictures would be good. |
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9317 Posts Member #: 59 First mini turbo to get in the 12's & site perv Herefordshire |
4th Jan, 2020 at 10:37:20pm
Very rigid thank you Robert, no complaints anyhow.
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 (2)[/url] by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/150672766@N03/]Rod Sugden[/url], on Fli) 5988 Posts Member #: 2024 Formally Retired Rural Suffolk |
5th Jan, 2020 at 03:19:09pm
On 4th Jan, 2020 Graham T said:
On 3rd Jan, 2020 Tom Fenton said:
Flying along! Have you got a spot welder, makes the welding quick and very neat. Unfortunately not Tom. I think maybe a bit of research needed, there are some cheaper and some more expensive, so I will look at the cheaper ones to see if they are any good. There are actually still a fair amount of panels left to fit which could make a spot welder of benefit. Personally I would be very wary of the cheaper ones. I've got the early version of this, https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/csw13t-spot...der-with-timer/ (by "early" I mean I bought it over 30 years ago so they've prettied it up a bit since but still the same basic specification). They are NOT cheap compared to what I paid 30 years ago (even taking inflation into account). The model without the timer is a bit cheaper but I find the timer makes for great consistency (although I have no personal comparison with the non-timer model). BUT, without a whole load of these, https://www.machinemart.co.uk/c/spot-welder-spares/ (the arms, not the drills) it has very limited use. And that more than doubles the cost at current prices. I guess that's just the price of copper (the working bits are all very heavy copper or copper alloys). When I bought mine all the extra arms were available as the full set as an "add-on" for only ~£200...... When I looked about a year ago on eBay for getting some replacement copper "electrode" rods I did see quite a few second hand Clarke ones, but still very expensive. And even with all the add-on arms it still won't get you everywhere. With the proper "spot weld" attachment and timer on a MIG, it will be just as structurally sound but it won't look as pretty until you attack it with a grinder. Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ??? |
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Site Admin 15300 Posts Member #: 337 Fearless Tom Fenton, Avon Park 2007 & 2008 class D winner & TM legend. |
5th Jan, 2020 at 08:06:21pm
I bought mine second hand some years ago, there tends to be enough of them for sale as folk buy them for a certain job then move them on again. For what you want it to do (twin or triple layer fairly thin steel) then I’d say most of the machines out there will do what you need.
On 29th Nov, 2016 madmk1 said:
On 28th Nov, 2016 Rob Gavin said:
I refuse to pay for anything else Like fuel 😂😂 |
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608 Posts Member #: 1106 Post Whore Hungerford, Berks |
5th Jan, 2020 at 08:27:30pm
We have always done plug welding up to now, and yes it is time consuming with drilling holes and then ugly until it's been addressed with an angle grinder.
’77 Clubman build thread
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5988 Posts Member #: 2024 Formally Retired Rural Suffolk |
6th Jan, 2020 at 08:37:48am
If your MIG is high enough current a spot welding "nozzle" (not really a nozzle but a head for the torch that holds the wire the right distance away and in one place) is very effective, especially if the welder has a spot weld timer function.
Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ??? |
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6745 Posts Member #: 828 Post Whore uranus |
6th Jan, 2020 at 09:48:57am
Graham if its of any use i have and old sip arc welder that i think may be useable as a spot welder ?you're welcome to borrow it . Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM |
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608 Posts Member #: 1106 Post Whore Hungerford, Berks |
7th Jan, 2020 at 09:23:01am
On 6th Jan, 2020 robert said:
Graham if its of any use i have and old sip arc welder that i think may be useable as a spot welder ?you're welcome to borrow it . Thanks Robert, I will let you know. But first off I have either the nozzle for the MIG to try and I have ordered some nozzles for the TIG also. Both the TIG and the MIG are 200Amp units, so should be powerful enough. Edited by Graham T on 7th Jan, 2020. ’77 Clubman build thread
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608 Posts Member #: 1106 Post Whore Hungerford, Berks |
10th Jan, 2020 at 03:26:48pm
TIG “Spot welding nozzles” arrived.
’77 Clubman build thread
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5988 Posts Member #: 2024 Formally Retired Rural Suffolk |
11th Jan, 2020 at 01:54:05pm
Interesting.
Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ??? |
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2629 Posts Member #: 1246 Post Whore Lowestoft, Suffolk. |
11th Jan, 2020 at 07:41:22pm
Having never seen the TIG spot weld ceramic it has intrigued me.
On 11th Jan, 2020 Rod S said:
Interesting. I've never tried the TIG version but it's obviously an autogenous weld (which is what a real spot weld is anyway) whereas the MIG version adds some filler. Because it's autogenous the weld pool will simply follow gravity so you will end up with more one side than the other, or even off to the side of the weld, depending on how the two pieces are laying at the time. With a normal spot weld gravity is eliminated because the two big lumps of copper either side hold everything in place. And with the MIG version metal is being added anyway and it's a lot faster than 4 seconds (well, on my MIG anyway) so gravity hasn't got so much time.... Are those special ceramics available in different sizes ? The size (diameter) of your "spot" may be being determined by the ceramic diameter. But, despite their size, they look totally structurally sound and a home spot welder (rather than the massive factory water cooled machines) really only does spots the same size as in your photos (unless you deliberately "sharpen" the copper bits to a larger size than the normal tool provides - I usually re-profile my copper bit in the lathe rather than use the standard tool). If you are woried about the size, just do more of them. It's the circumference of the weld that carries the load so if you want them to be double the diameter, just do four times as many. Mathematically, for a series of spot welds to be a strong as a seam weld, they have to be "pi" times their diameter apart but, in practice, they are never that close - apart from maybe the spots on the four vertical body shell seams on a Mini |
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9317 Posts Member #: 59 First mini turbo to get in the 12's & site perv Herefordshire |
11th Jan, 2020 at 08:09:35pm
Graham, I am sorry I cannot find any pictures of how I had the steel front secured. |
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608 Posts Member #: 1106 Post Whore Hungerford, Berks |
11th Jan, 2020 at 08:20:42pm
Thanks Rod, some interesting information in there.
’77 Clubman build thread
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608 Posts Member #: 1106 Post Whore Hungerford, Berks |
11th Jan, 2020 at 08:23:29pm
On 11th Jan, 2020 Nic said:
Graham, I am sorry I cannot find any pictures of how I had the steel front secured. No problem Nic. If I go down the steel removable front route - which I think I will - I have an idea of how I am going to do it. I was just more worried about the difference between the pre 76 and post 76 clubman front panel, but I think that was answered anyway. Edited by Graham T on 11th Jan, 2020. ’77 Clubman build thread
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2629 Posts Member #: 1246 Post Whore Lowestoft, Suffolk. |
12th Jan, 2020 at 01:06:58pm
The angle grind would certainly be worth while experimenting with, possibly also types of tungsten with some having slightly better arc stability than others.
On 11th Jan, 2020 Graham T said:
Thanks Rod, some interesting information in there. I’ve only so far found the one size, supplied through Frost. https://www.frost.co.uk/eastwood-2pc-tig-sp...O0aAt6jEALw_wcB To be honest, it could do with being a little smaller in diameter to work well on the lips of the panels, the spots will be a little far out, almost on the outer edge of the material. Shane, when I was reading Rod’s post, I actually thought the same with regards to electrode size, but I never thought about changing the angle of the electrode tip - I’ll try that before I look at larger electrodes and collets and bodies. But ultimately I guess as Rod says, I can always add more welds if I am worried about strength once I start. For now though, I’m still working with plug welding for the area’s where I have no way to clamp the 2 pieces of material tightly together. Ie – I am drilling holes through both pieces of material and screwing together to get the pieces tight together. |
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5988 Posts Member #: 2024 Formally Retired Rural Suffolk |
12th Jan, 2020 at 02:16:30pm
For info/interest, this is how a spot welder gets around the problem of access to the narrow flanged seams,
Edited by Rod S on 12th Jan, 2020. Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ??? |
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