Anybody seen this? Direct Injection
Turbo Mini Forums

That's the trick isn't it?! A GDI ECU from Motec is £3500+ and Syvecs at £2500+ for just the box. I can't imagine the local rolling roads would be that well versed in mapping for you either?

Those injectors look like the ones used on BINIs Have to say very intrigued by this Di stuff, despite the reliability issues I see daily.

turbo 16v k-series 11.9@118.9 :)

Denis O'Brien.

Those injectors intrigue me.

Must have a very short minimum pulse width to get the range of flows from a single injector.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

I see, variable fuel pressure!

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

So what happens inlet manifold side?

Air goes in

I run a supercharger and I don't care the TB is on the wrong side.
VEMS + 12 PSI + Liquid Intercooler = Small Bore FUN!

The inlet manifold will only see air but you still need some sort of throttle and you should still design it in a way similar to what Paul S has done to optimise VE.

http://www.jbperf.com/

blanking plate? or special cast.

you can do anything if you set your mind to it...
i rather blow it up winning than keep it together losing.

finish date set for project 1... march 2018

Wonder if these will cause exhaust valves and poets to coke up like most Di petrol engines

Injection window is very narrow. I agree variable fuel pressure would be very advantageous
Also the nozzle pattern looks like its from a spray guided central location so there is plenty of opportunity of getting the fuel preparation very wrong.
If it all goes quiet I won' t be too surprised

Edited by matnrach on 17th Jan, 2015.

Diesels have multiple pulses for smoothness and to reduce knock. I don't know, but does a petrol engine need such clever mapping?

Fastest 998 mini in the world? 13.05 1/4 mile 106mph

www.twin-turbo.co.uk

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

In reality you could probably just use a conentional map, with similar timings and durations. this would get you started anyway.

Fastest 998 mini in the world? 13.05 1/4 mile 106mph

www.twin-turbo.co.uk

I've not really considered DI in detail before but I conject that it is nothing like conventional injection.

Given that the injectors have to deal with the combustion pressure, then they must have a very heavy spring and also a high powered coil to open them. Even then, to get the loads manageable they must then use a smaller pintle and seat which then requires a very high fuel pressure to get the fuel through.

Fuel that has just been pumped up to several thousand psi is going to be very hot and as soon as it goes into the cylinder is going to vaporise and expand at a huge rate.

Any injection before the inlet valve closes is likely to prevent air entering the cylinder due to the rapid vaporisation and ultimately limit power.

So injection on the compression stroke is where I would start.

I'm guessing here though.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Assuming you're right on the injection timing, which seems reasonable, that would also mean that there is no air displaced by fuel in the intake charge so that should mean slightly more power due to the additional air available for combustion.

However, there will also be more power spent running the pump to those pressures and possibly the injectors too.

http://www.jbperf.com/

I see that they've added more pictures and information. That does look quite interesting.

Unfortunately, they seem to be going with short intake runners. And I do hope they will put 3 (or at least 2) O2 sensors on those exhaust branches. That would be a shame to do this sophisticated development without even validating that it does what it's supposed to do.

I don't do facebook so maybe someone who does could ask?

http://www.jbperf.com/

Saw this at Bingley Minifair yesterday..
The information panel said that the injection occurs on the inlet event.
The tech guy who seemed to know most about it said that the VE differences between inner/outer cylinders is negligible and from this i assume they will be injecting equal amounts of fuel across the board.
He also said that he reckons from their experience that injecting the fuel on the incoming air gives a cooling effect and increases the overall efficiency by 7-10%.
He didn't think much of the fully sequential siamese injection idea saying it is ineffective above 5,500rpm and hasn't been proven in a race motor..
I asked if they were going to be running thorough tests and they said it will be documented on facebook and they already have an exhaust manifold with enough lambda sensors to measure inner/outer cylinder afrs.
Will be interesting to see the results however I don't expect them to be soon. I think they are looking for a well setup motor on a weber or the like to make a direct comparison on the dyno in a day and have taken the details of one of my autograss mates who offered to use his 1071 S motor as a base.
Would have asked more questions but only got to the stall at the end of the day and was bustled away by my mates

Edited by samforsey12345 on 26th Jan, 2015.

They could use my supercharged engine as a test bed. Would certainly fix my suck through issues...

http://www.jbperf.com/

My two pence, but race motors are really only tuned for all out top end and acceleration, the r&d really needs to be on a mild to fast road going motor to really churn out the best results

I presume there is a Motorsport reason for the upgrade?

If not why wouldn't you just go 7 or 8 port?

I run a supercharger and I don't care the TB is on the wrong side.
VEMS + 12 PSI + Liquid Intercooler = Small Bore FUN!

"race proven"

Does that mean during the 2014 Pikes Peak, Guy Martin put a "race Proven" stamp on something that never quite worked? Does it mean that because it wasn't working at its bestt, but it still won the race, it's been race proven?

I have my own opinion.

Edited by Sprocket on 26th Jan, 2015.