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 11046 Posts Member #: 965 Post Whore Preston On The Brook |
16th Jun, 2012 at 12:19:49am
On 15th Jun, 2012 jbelanger said:
On 15th Jun, 2012 Sprocket said:
Don't make the mistake that a lot of MS users make. V&$@#  never ever used any MS code, never mind 'any more'. You could argue the idea was stolen, but even then the first generation end result did not compare to the MS, and the current product is a not even a shadow of MS. The only comparison that could have been made was that they both used Megatune, at least for a while.Really? I'm almost certain that the first version was porting the code to the AVR and was called something like MS-AVR (I forget the details because that was quite a while ago). It diverged after that and was renamed VEMS but there is definitely a link deeper than just using MT. Are we talkig about an idea as being the similarity? That could easilly be said of any product of similar nature, of which there are many. What about the Algorythms? I'm sure the original MS algorythms were taken from an idea of some other product, or, they could have been based on a widely available and accepted ideas to achieve the end result, a mathematical equasion. Take for example PID control algorythms, who owns those? but everyone uses them. The similarity between MS and MS-AVR is partly by name, and partly by Megatune that both used, that is where the similarity ended. You could debate about the algorythms being the same, but then they are both doing the same job. The hardware and firmware could not be more different. Fact remains that this KDFI thing looks to me to be a independantly designed hardware taking full advantage of the readilly available MS firmware. I do see why there might be some ill feelings here and those have already been discussed above. On 15th Jun, 2012 jbelanger said:
On 15th Jun, 2012 Sprocket said:
That aside, the developers soon locked down the code to stop this sort of thing happening. They even went to the trouble to lock the tuning software to recognose an issued serial numbered 'genuine' processor. This obviously puts it in a different catagory, where it has been for a good number of years And is that a good thing? It might be different but I fail to see that as being better for end users. And that means a single source for everything related to VEMS. Jean This is like whether you buy an Apple or an IBM PC Buy an IBM, install a video adapter, sound adapter, modem, and any other combination of add ons only to find the limitations of the operating system and conflicts with the combination of hardwares and softwares. Buy an Apple computer and both hardware and software work together with minimal fuss, and the man on the end of the phone will know exactly what to do, how to do it and fix it when it does go wrong. Like I said, Vems is in a different catagory now since its first inception due to certain pieces of 'code' being 'stolen'. Boards are sold with the processor already installed with a unique serial number, there is no reason why MS cannot do the same, thus preventing some one else building their own product and freely taking advantage of the published firmware On 26th Oct, 2004 TurboDave16v said:
Is it A-Series only? I think it should be... So when some joey comes on here about how his 16v turbo vauxhall is great compared to ours, he can be given the 'bird'... On 26th Oct, 2004 Tom Fenton said:
Yep I agree with TD........ |
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1267 Posts Member #: 831 Post Whore Montreal, Canada |
16th Jun, 2012 at 01:12:51am
I don't understand you. You say that pieces of the VEMS code were stolen and then when someone takes the whole MS2/Extra code, there is nothing wrong with it? And porting code to a different processor is different from using the same algorithm. It is essentially using the same code and simply changing the registers and hardware specific parts. Even if you then start modifying the code, it is still not an independent code.
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 (2)[/url] by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/150672766@N03/]Rod Sugden[/url], on Fli) 5988 Posts Member #: 2024 Formally Retired Rural Suffolk |
16th Jun, 2012 at 09:39:37am
Lots of analogies flying about....
Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ??? |
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75 Posts Member #: 1956 Advanced Member |
16th Jun, 2012 at 12:59:43pm
I'm not going to argue with the experts of megasquirt code. You guys have done an excellent job!
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 4890 Posts Member #: 1775 Post Whore Chester |
16th Jun, 2012 at 04:24:05pm
Loads of great ideas have been copied / stolen over the years, from many different companies, either by espionage or sneaky contract writing.
I run a supercharger and I don't care the TB is on the wrong side.
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5988 Posts Member #: 2024 Formally Retired Rural Suffolk |
16th Jun, 2012 at 04:29:37pm
On 16th Jun, 2012 remko said:
But now I've gone for the KDFI route and intend to finish it! For what it's worth, good luck. I think you know you are already limited to two chanels so can't run staged injection (essential for anything over ~120BHP on a siamese port injection). Run it in its limited form, learn from it, then buy the real thing :) Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ??? |
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 16540 Posts Member #: 4241 King Gaycharger, butt plug dealer, Sheldon Cooper and a BAC but generally a niceish fella if you dont mind a northerner Rotherham, South Yorkshire |
16th Jun, 2012 at 04:40:16pm
On 16th Jun, 2012 gr4h4m said:
In my application the SC EFI kit is by far the bet value when you think about the support available form them. That was my thinking. I do plan to move my charger to the correct side of the butterfly and run the SC kit in blow through for a bit. After that I fancy a dable with siamese injection by MS. At least then I will have direct back to back tests with the same setup and on the same rollers etc. Should provide some interesting data when I get that far. On 11th Feb, 2015 robert said:
i tried putting soap on it , and heating it to brown , then slathered my new lube on it 
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 12307 Posts Member #: 565 Carlos Fandango Burnham-on-Crouch, Essex |
16th Jun, 2012 at 04:41:15pm
Well.... setting aside the licencing stuff...
On 28th Aug, 2011 Kean said:
At the risk of being sigged... Joe, do you have a photo of your tool? http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.p...9064&lastpost=1 https://joe1977.imgbb.com/ |
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1267 Posts Member #: 831 Post Whore Montreal, Canada |
16th Jun, 2012 at 05:02:46pm
I would just like to add one more point on the argument that it's the fault of the MS creators for making the code too easily available. Besides the ethical/moral question which people seem to brush aside, the fact that the code is available and can be modified is the reason the siamese code exists.
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11046 Posts Member #: 965 Post Whore Preston On The Brook |
16th Jun, 2012 at 07:23:47pm
On 16th Jun, 2012 jbelanger said:
I don't understand you. You say that pieces of the VEMS code were stolen and then when someone takes the whole MS2/Extra code, there is nothing wrong with it? On 16th Jun, 2012 jbelanger said:
It's as if you were saying that if I leave the door of my house unlocked, anyone can just rob me and they are not to be blamed. Next thing you'll be suggesting is that I'm racist Here's some more analogies VHS or Betamax, top loader or slot loader, NTSC or PAL? On 26th Oct, 2004 TurboDave16v said:
Is it A-Series only? I think it should be... So when some joey comes on here about how his 16v turbo vauxhall is great compared to ours, he can be given the 'bird'... On 26th Oct, 2004 Tom Fenton said:
Yep I agree with TD........ |
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5988 Posts Member #: 2024 Formally Retired Rural Suffolk |
16th Jun, 2012 at 07:55:49pm
On 16th Jun, 2012 Sprocket said:
Here's some more analogies VHS or Betamax, top loader or slot loader, NTSC or PAL? ...but not very good analogies as in all three cases they achieve the "same" but in VERY different ways. In all three cases, none "borrow" (I'm being nice) from the other. They all just have a single word in common. You could add to your list BluRay vs HD-DVD. Both used the same principle of video compression but neither copied each other. But, just like VHS vs Betamax, one won and one lost.... And you can't play a Betamax tape in a VHS player, etc..... Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ??? |
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1267 Posts Member #: 831 Post Whore Montreal, Canada |
16th Jun, 2012 at 08:01:14pm
Sprocket,
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11046 Posts Member #: 965 Post Whore Preston On The Brook |
16th Jun, 2012 at 08:23:07pm
On 16th Jun, 2012 Rod S said:
And you can't play a Betamax tape in a VHS player, etc..... Your statement above does actually apply. You cannot use MS firmware on Vems hardware, never could and never will. I have already said my piece on the KDFI as being dodgey. On 26th Oct, 2004 TurboDave16v said:
Is it A-Series only? I think it should be... So when some joey comes on here about how his 16v turbo vauxhall is great compared to ours, he can be given the 'bird'... On 26th Oct, 2004 Tom Fenton said:
Yep I agree with TD........ |
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5988 Posts Member #: 2024 Formally Retired Rural Suffolk |
17th Jun, 2012 at 06:27:43am
On 16th Jun, 2012 Sprocket said:
Your statement above does actually apply. You cannot use MS firmware on Vems hardware, never could and never will. I have already said my piece on the KDFI as being dodgey. It was meant to apply - except in the context of MS vs KDFI, not MS vs VEMS :) Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ??? |
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 971 Posts Member #: 3228 Post Whore North of the Netherlands |
22nd Jun, 2012 at 07:02:39am
Don't want to go into the licencing bit (eventhough it was one of the reasons for buying my MS).
Dazed and Confused.... |
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