Canems ECU 1380 N/A
Turbo Mini Forums

Ill go re-read it all again and try make heads or tails of it.

http://www.jbperf.com/

I might be mistaken but I think that the graph showing afr's was when using 2 narrowbands.

http://www.jbperf.com/

Re. Canems itself, I've had a quick read of their website and it seems it's pretty much the same as the MS2 semi sequential siamese code developed on this site three years or more ago.
As I remember it, at the time, people on here thought it would work. But (to the best of my knowledge) only Paul/Sturgeo actually tried it, and only briefly, because Jean very quickly revised the code to include fully sequential in addition to the variable injection timing.
And I think all of those who followed on from that early testing opted to fit a cam (phase) sensor and go down the fully sequential route.
Personally, Like Sturgeo, I think semi-sequential with variable injection timing can be made to work much better than a simple wet manifold or untimed port injection, but it will never have the precision of fully sequential.....

But back to Ciaran's plots - the fact that sometimes one AFR is off scale and sometimes it's close to the other one - and the engine is still in one piece - suggests there is something fundamentally wrong with the readings.

Possibilities ???

Air leak(s).
Dodgy wiring between LSU and controllers.
Damaged sensor.
Defective wideband controller (seems like they are part of the ECU from posts earlier).
Anything else....

(I've discounted it being a genuine 20+ as that should be obvious from the way the engine runs)

In any case I would suggest you get it so the readings are consistent before trying to optimise the injection timing.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

We found semi-sequential to be very driveable, just that the AFRs in the outers were not rich enough for turbo application. Canems have proved with dyno runs that there system is better than a carb, unlike some others that come to mind.

Are the sensors connected the right way around? The readings are typical of what you would get from poorly setup injection timing, if it was the inners running rich. Although it would be missing at 20:1.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Quote from the guys at canems lifted from efiminis.

"The best comparison is probably the two AFR plots on this page of the web
site:
http://www.canems.co.uk/siameseports.php

I think those plots have caused some confusion because people don't
realise they were recorded with narrowband lambda sensors, not wideband
(in fact I should really update the web page to reflect this). Therefore a
small difference in AFR looks like a glaring mismatch between inner and
outer cylinders. In reality, all cylinders are hovering on the
stoichiometric point.

The following video was also recorded with narrowband sensors, and you can
see that incorrect injection timing causes a big problem:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t935Ph393FQ
Conversely, when the injection timing is correct you can see the inner and
outer cylinders hovering on the stoichiometric point.

As for how the car drives when you change the injection timing, Tim Mundy
(technical editor of MiniWorld) wrote the following in his product review:
"The superiority of the Canems system is demonstrated in full, though,
when David switches off the unique fuel timing, the system immediately
loses power and becomes a lot less crisp. Switching it on brings relief."

Our first magazine article in Practical Classics magazing was with an
Austin A40 (1098cc engine, with MPI injection manifold). The car gained
22% power at the wheels:
http://www.canems.co.uk/casestudy/pracclassa40.php

Our first four-injector car added 14 bhp and 14lb/ft at 5250rpm over a
Weber 45 DCOE, and enabled almost a second to taken from the lap record at
Elvington in Yorkshire. (Power plots and videos online for this as well).

Up until now I was lacking in independant power tests. Unfortunately
Marcel is very busy with his job so was unable to put the time into
testing. Luckily the local Mini club here organised a rolling road day (to
be published in MiniWorld shortly) last weekend. This allowed us to do
some back-to-back tests against other Minis in various states of tune. The
four-injector car was the most powerful on the day making 132 bhp, and my
own 998cc 'runabout' made 70bhp (beating the Rover 1275cc MPI Minis)."

Ive a few hours free today so Im going to double check all the wiring and hardware to make sure its all good.

All the wiring is fine, so its not a wiring issue. The Airleak is the next thing to look at but I dont have the time today to get under the car.

The Plugs tell a similar story to the AFR guages altho perhaps not as extreme:

Number 1 : Nice tanned colour, like Jennifer Lopez

Number 2: White/slight tan colour, definatley leaner than number 1.

Now three and four are a different kettle of fish:

Number 3: Oil is getting into the cylinder, under it tells another lean story, white. I dont know where, however its just had new rings, so maybe HG or Valve stems.

Number 4 : Very rich, alot of carbon.

All very confusing, It seems the TB nearest the Fuel in is fuelling almost perfect, the TB furthest is not.

I have Emailled Dave from Canems, who is extremelly helpful, I havnt heard back, but he maybe away on holidays.

It is extremely unusual for the inners to be lean - with injection, we try to stop the outers being lean....

As Canems uses injection timing, and assuming you have the factory default map, is your 36:1 wheel in the right place ???

A long shot, I know, as the ignition timing would be all wrong too, but you cannot easily make the inners week.

Re. No3 - if it's white under the oil, the oil is getting in on the rundown or after the engine is stopped - valve guide seal would be the first thing to look at.

For the last bit, post up a good picture of your fuel rail and regulator and hoses.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Fastest 998 mini in the world? 13.05 1/4 mile 106mph

www.twin-turbo.co.uk

The Injection timing was set to 2D and was only timing at Idle. I changed it to 3-D and brought it for a run. There is a improvement, but the inners are still lean according to the sensors, although its not as extreme.

Feck sake Valve Stems, I knew I should have done them while the head was off.

We did a dual wideband log on a hif a few years back, the logs must be somewhere on here.

A quick summary of 4 years of testing:

Carb:


Semi-Sequential:


Latest MS3 in Mpi mode:


I have never seen a log of a wet manifold setup. Just claims.

Edited by Paul S on 30th Jun, 2011.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Now that is interesting. Certinally the semisequential was significantly worse than the HIF. and the sequentail better.

Fastest 998 mini in the world? 13.05 1/4 mile 106mph

www.twin-turbo.co.uk

If I recall correctly we didn't do much config on semi-sequential so what you see there might be the base settings. I'll see if I can find a .msq from that date and see what settings we were using.

I think that the semi-sequential log above is as good as it got.

By the end of June 2008, I was making the first cam sensor.

Edited by Paul S on 30th Jun, 2011.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

http://www.jaservices.co.uk/photos/Dual%20...20Table%201.pdf

http://www.jaservices.co.uk/photos/Dual%20...Log%20Siam2.pdf

http://www.jaservices.co.uk/photos/Dual%20...Log%20Siam3.pdf

Various different timing figures set the same across the whole table.

I am firmly of the opinion that if you want better fueling than a carb, then there is only one way to do it.

On the other hand, an ECU offers far more than just fuel control. For an NA engine, greater options on manifolding or the use of TBs can offset the disadvantage of a bit of spread in the AFRs. For a high boost turbo then you need accurate fueling at least as good as the SU.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

I agree with Paul and that is also probably why Canems was able to make the gains they show.

And I still argue they haven't proven their claim of equalized AFRs. And who in their right mind would use stoic for the entire range? That doesn't make sense so their claim that the AFR difference shown in their log is an artifact of using narrowbands is absurd. The engine wouldn't last very long.

Jean

http://www.jbperf.com/