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Home > A-Series EFI / Injection > Another Cam Sensor

Sprocket

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Preston On The Brook

That looks really good :)

On 26th Oct, 2004 TurboDave16v said:
Is it A-Series only? I think it should be...
So when some joey comes on here about how his 16v turbo vauxhall is great compared to ours, he can be given the 'bird'...


On 26th Oct, 2004 Tom Fenton said:
Yep I agree with TD........


Paul S

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Finally got around to fitting this:


Now, if I swap the screw near the S in "Cams" for a slightly longer one, then it will be in just the right place.

Edited by Paul S on 21st Apr, 2011.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."


jbelanger

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Montreal, Canada

Are you sure you won't get false readings at high RPM from the other screws? Other than that it's a nice solution.

Jean

http://www.jbperf.com/


robert

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uranus

not if you put the longer one in with a nut on the back for the trigger ?then the trigger will be 1mm from the nut and 4 to 5 mm from the other bolt ends ?

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM


Paul S

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We did some testing at the weekend and it should be OK.

You need to get the screw within 1.5mm of the sensor to get a signal. The other screws will be around 4mm away.

We will do another test with it all bolted up.

Just spent the last hour or so getting the effing woodruff key to fit *angry*

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."


Yo-Han

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North of the Netherlands

Can't you change the other screws to stainless steel if you want to eliminate the risk of false readings?

Dazed and Confused....


Paul S

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On 21st Apr, 2011 Yo-Han said:
Can't you change the other screws to stainless steel if you want to eliminate the risk of false readings?


Interesting idea.

I've just tested a sensor with a stainless screw and, you're right, it does not see it.

The only thing that worries me is the tensile strength of stainless steel cap screws. Nothing like as strong as the high tensile screws currently in use.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."


Joe C

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Carlos Fandango

Burnham-on-Crouch, Essex

indeed, but they dont deed to be particuarly strong,

the sensors a nice neat solution though!

Edited by Joe C on 21st Apr, 2011.

On 28th Aug, 2011 Kean said:
At the risk of being sigged...

Joe, do you have a photo of your tool?



http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.p...9064&lastpost=1

https://joe1977.imgbb.com/



Yo-Han

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Stainless steel bolts are also available in different grades.

http://www.bssa.org.uk/topics.php?article=127

Dazed and Confused....


stevieturbo

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Northern Ireland

Ive seen some stainless one's on egay claiming high tensile.
But as stated, I dont imagine they need to be very strong at all.

What is the camwheel itself made from ? Is part of it anodised aluminium ?

9.85 @ 145mph
202mph standing mile
speed didn't kill me, but taxation probably will


Rod S

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If you want to stick with HT (not stainless) can you not just use shorter ones (apart from the trigger one).

I can't see in the photo how far the others protrude from the back but there is no engineering reason why they have to protrude at all.

But as already said, they are carrying sod all load - if the centre section is alloy like it appears, it would deform under the screwhead/washer before you sheared a stainless setscrew.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???


Paul S

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Yes, the cam wheel is aluminium, not recommended for road use.

There is a bit of load on the screws as they transmit the drive to the cam, but not enough to shear 6 M6 screws, even in stainless.

I was happy with Plan A, but I prefer the option of fitting the stainless screws, simply because it will allow me to fit another locknut on the sensor on the inside. It's just hanging in 4mm aluminium plate with a single locknut at the moment, which is not ideal.

Thanks for the comments guys.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."


Joe C

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Carlos Fandango

Burnham-on-Crouch, Essex

I'd disagree and say its actually the friction/stiction between the sprocket and hub that transmit the drive, all the bolts do is pull these together, so there is no sidways force on the bolts.

considering we run clutches woith the backplates restrained by 3 M8's or 5/16UNF's I would have no qualms running decent ally bolts in there.

On 28th Aug, 2011 Kean said:
At the risk of being sigged...

Joe, do you have a photo of your tool?



http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.p...9064&lastpost=1

https://joe1977.imgbb.com/



stevieturbo

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On 22nd Apr, 2011 Joe C said:
I'd disagree and say its actually the friction/stiction between the sprocket and hub that transmit the drive, all the bolts do is pull these together, so there is no sidways force on the bolts.

considering we run clutches woith the backplates restrained by 3 M8's or 5/16UNF's I would have no qualms running decent ally bolts in there.


Correct.

Just imagine the loads on some propshafts that are not dowelled and only held on with 4 bolts.

In fact, it is amazing they dont shear !!

9.85 @ 145mph
202mph standing mile
speed didn't kill me, but taxation probably will


Paul S

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Yes, you're right. Having a grey moment there.

Anyway, just bolted the cam/plate etc up. Checked sprocket alignment to find that it is a mile out.

Turns out that the aluminium plates are quite a bit thinner than the original.

Spaced out the cam thrust plate to sort alignment and the sensor clearance is now too big. Nothing is ever simple.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."


Rod S

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On 22nd Apr, 2011 Paul S said:
Nothing is ever simple.


Story of our lives......

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???


Ratty

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Chippenham, Wilts

Paul, how many degrees before TDC have you set the cam sensor?


Paul S

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I followed this guide:

http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms3/trigger-wheel.html

Although it's for MS3, it also applies to MS2. I think my cam signal will be a little in adavance of the advised 120 degrees, but it is not critical. The 998Ti is running with it set by "eye".

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."


Rod S

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Mine, although a different design, ended up at 160 degrees BTDC.

That was set long before the MS3 guide existed and was based on Jean's recommendation to have the cam trigger occuring shortly before the crank missing tooth was seen - crank missing tooth is 90 degrees BTDC so I just chose approx another nominal 40 - 50 degrees in advance (ie nominally 135 degrees BTDC) and actully ended up with 160 degrees.

The important point is to avoid the two triggers being too close to each other.

Edited by Rod S on 31st May, 2011.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???


Ratty

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Chippenham, Wilts

So anywhere between 120-160 btdc will be fine, its just I going to copy Pauls idea fit the sensor on to the cam sprocket and need to give the machinist the details so the bolt is set in the right place


Paul S

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In the end, I swapped 5 of the screws for stainless ones.

You will need an alloy sprocket which is not ideal for high mileage use. Alternatively, a much longer screw on a steel sprocket may work.

Not tested it yet though.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."


Ratty

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Chippenham, Wilts

I'm using the original steel sprocket (with offset keys) but the problem of drilling it will be down to Brett lol


Rod S

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On 31st May, 2011 Ratty said:
So anywhere between 120-160 btdc will be fine........


As the MS3 manual now quotes a figure, I would go for that - a couple of years ago we were going by what Jean recommended as he had only just added the cam trigger to the code.

Bear in mind you also have the option in the software of the second trigger being on the rising or falling edge of the signal so depending how fast your Hall switch changes from on to off you can pick two different points for it to operate anyway.

In my case (Opto-switch, not Hall) I ended up with a 35 degree window (see my scope plot that Paul put on the first page of this thread) so I could move it a lot closer to 120 degrees if I wanted, but all I can say is, it works fine at 160 degrees.

If you are using a steel wheel and bolt, depending how far the bolt protrudes from the steel wheel "may" affect how fast the Hall switch operates. A bit of an unknown.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???


Ratty

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Chippenham, Wilts

Paul, I'm going to perform the led test you did to see how far from the steel wheel I need to have the sensor.

Do you have a schematic of the circuit you used?


Paul S

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No schematic, just I take 12v through a 680k resistor to an LED connected to the sensor output.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

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