Josh's turbo 1098cc carburetion sucks lets try EFI
Turbo Mini Forums

Good to see it's working as expected now.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

well ive been bussy with work so dont have anything to add of grate intrest apart from getting my other inter-cooler parts like coolant pump hoses dump valve charge cooler claps fittings boost pipes bla bla...
any way at first glance holding things up roughly where they will go it looks like it will fit and work well so when i get some time ill sort the mounting brackets and post it up also the shop is dragging there ass a bit but they are almost ready to let me have that parts and part with my hard earned cash
not looked at the ecu since the last post ether

ok so while mocking up the coolant side on my inter cooler ive lent that dry tapered threads in aluminm and a brass barbed fitting is a BAD !!!! idea ive buggered up the threads in my inter cooler!
i threeaded it in straight and all that where i went wrong was i did it dry ie without tape and sealant or a drop of oil what ever anyway its galed the threads and pulled most of them out when i well broke the fitting lose as it froze in there
anyway now i know!! also now ive gota fix my fook up... so haha any ideas??
there are still like 4 threreads deep in there that the fitting will still grab onto will this be enough? if not im thinking ill cut the tube with the threads in it shorter and tap some more threads deeper in ? ill have to get a pic to make my words clear but this is the rad i have
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Water-Liquid-to...=item2c756aaa12
its way bigger that i need but i want to get my charge temps at or as close to ambient air temp..
you can see the thick wall tube welded onto the end of the tanks witch the 1/2" NTP threads are cut in i think ill chop the tube back and re thread it deeper? seems to be enough meat in there so probaly not so bad?

also i know ive asked some other place about it but the shop is going to cut my dampner for 36-1 and they want the dimentions so ive had a go at working it out nd come up with
pie = 3.1415 a constant
D= 154.45mm the dampner ring mesument
used this C=pie multiplyed by D to find
C=485.12mm
each slot is to be 10 degrees apart ie start anywhere cut a slot turn it 10 dergees cut the next slot turn and repeat right???
witch i took and divided by 72 (twice 36 as we want equal peak and gully with) to get the cutter size of 6.738mm
the dampner ring will only allow a 5mm deep cut with out running into the rubber part so do you think that should work? if not ill find a pre cut ring that i can heat up n press over the damper ring probaly not a bad idear as it will increse the ring mass

shop has lightened the crank and its back from the heat treaters looks good not quite the amount i thought they where takeing off but im happy with it they said they took what they felt was extra metiral and what did not lose strength so i guess thats all i need and want they turned the diamter down and knife edged it i think they said its about 250 grams weight loss so cant complain i guess
they also lightened the rods about 50 grams each i think they said? they have been roughf balanced sized bushed and peened
block is in the makeing still will check in on monday when i drop the pully in

might have a look see at the ecu and stuff tomoro arvo/night see what i need to still sort with that
probaly get the inter cooler sorted and maby the fuel pump mini tank thing and depending on how bad ive messed the intercooler up ill fix that up tomoz for now ive cracked it for the arvo/night


so i guess my questions are
do you think my idea for the inter cooler should work?
do you think how im planing to cut the 36-1 will give a strong clear signal?

Peak and valley width don't have to be identical.
With a VR pickup, get them as close as possible (ie, a 6mm cutter would be fine for your calcs.) but I seem to remember you're using Hall switches - they don't really care (within reason) as they just switch on the edges without trying to produce a neat sine wave.

And 5mm depth will be fine for a 6mm width, it could probably be a lot less (the depth/width ratio on my TC rings (Hall switches) is more like 0.5 and they work fine) but aim for 5mm.

What I would advise is spending a lot of time making sure exactly where the missing tooth should be cut if you are doing it on the pulley itself, ie, to make sure it's in the right place relative to your sensor bracket. You can do the final adjustment in the software but it needs to be about right to start with.


EDIT - typo

Edited by Rod S on 15th Nov, 2013.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

cheers rod, im going to cut the missing tooth out when i make the bracket with the die grinder i think that should avoid messing that up i hope?

one more thing should i have it cut with a squar end mill or a rounded one the google pic ive seen all have a sort of rounded shape in the gullys??

ohh yeah i cant fit the air filter where i wanted to or any other place for that matter
so im thinking of putting in under the dash? planing on useing the path the heater fresh air intake uses but some how still have the fresh air for my heater
maby ill run a sealed pipe inside the factory fresh air one and pop out before the heater for my air filter? and pop a hole in the factory air scoop for the heater if that adds up???
being in the cab and useing a re circulation valve it should give a nice stretchered out sound like when you un plug an air line from the compressor tank and it vents the pressure psssshhhhhhhhh

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

ok i think ill go for a half way effort of a flat base and a radius into the walls should be good at that also will retain a touch more mass in the ring witch is a good thing all depends on what tooling the shop has i guess..

well today has been disappointing!
had a bird smash my windscreen on the high way
the cooper s damper and pully i bought from minisport here in aus has been poorly constructed
the outer ring of mass is not centered on the hub the shop found this while chucking it up on the mill to do the work and where like what the..
so i called them they said just send it in we will look at it i then asked how long it will be and who pays for the return postage? they said a minim of 3 weeks! and you have to pay to send it back! fook me might as well look at getting a med one with the 36-1 on it already... while this crap getts sorted out..
not happy.. why should i have to pay to send a faulty item back for replacement and what the hell is a minum 3 week wait about??

right the new loom has made it into the car so far its just split into rough bundles that most probably will be the branches once loomed up

so any wires ill not be using ill just fix up so the ends are safe?
what do people use for the second wide band signal wire? upper connector pin 22?
can i use one of the pin numbers again on the upper 24,6,25,27,9 for the thermo fan ?
can i then use the pin numbers 30,11,29,28,21,23,31 for other things like more temp sensors and pressure sensors?

id like to add oil pressure, oil temp, IC coolant temp, fuel pressure, wheel speed

how have you guys done the grounds and power supplys for sensors and coils ect? just dasy chain them for say the 4 coils useing a single ground from ms and for say the IAT and CLT so on do the same? or each item has to have its own ground to ms on a particular pin? things like cam and crank have there own ground pins im aware of that

also has anyone used a center speedo cluster in a club man? my GT cluster is not mush chop the rev counter isnt reading correct and the speedo bounced a lot haha so im wanting something that works the way its supost to n besides i like the center ones more but the price tag for a new set yikes

ok so been busy lately but now have some time to play.

so im wanting to sort most of the wiring stuff up to the point of final looming up and crimping the connectors

so i was looking up the pin numbers and what ill need to each plug anyway the coil spec says a max current of 19 amps ? since ive got 4 thats 76A if they are full tilt.. that seems a lot! also seem unrealistic?
so im looking for a more realistic number of what they normally run at so i can work cable size and then i can fuse it appropriately.. could test it using the stim and a dc amp meter?

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

I've ran wasted spark and 4 CNPs on a 15 amp fuse.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

use Ohm's Law to determine a rough full current draw of each coil. The coil would never ever survive at that, but it will give you a good idea what the max current would likely be for the coils you have. Use a smaller fuse rating than that to protect the coil from a constant power situation.

The coils themselves when in propper use will draw a fraction of that current. I would personally use a 10 amp fuse, but if you run coil on plug individal coils, pair up the coils power feed and use a 5 amp fuse per pair.

ive got the expensive ones i dont really need them but hey...
http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/ign1a-r...coil-p-394.html

now that its pointed out about them not all drawing current at ones it makes scene that i should be able to run about a 10A fuse on all 4 or 5A with them split in pairs just like you guys say
cheers i wasn't thinking right..

I don't think you can halve the fuse rating by splitting the load. It does not work like that.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

As Paul says, it doesn't quite work that way.....

Because the COPs each operate in sequence, never together, the fuse and wire rating needs to be adequate for just one - but can then be used to supply all four.

From the DIYautotune datasheet, the maximum current rating (of each one) is actually based on the rating of the IGBT chip inside it. That means if you set the charge (dwell) time so seriously wrongly long, the IGBT would shut down at 19A. But run them like that and the coil itself would fry pretty quickly.

Ohms law is not particularly relevant as it only calculates the absolute maximum current (which actualy exceeds the IGBT in this case), the actual current is driven by the coil's inductance.

When the ECU turns the coil "on" the current starts from zero and rises rapidly and once the coil is "charged" (magnetically) it doesn't stop rising unless you have set the values right in the software. That is why DIYautotune say "However, they can be killed by excessive dwell or duty cycle." (duty cycle refers to using them for more than one spark plug or extremely high RPM so we can ignore that, just worry about the dwell setting).

If you set dwell correctly, as DIY say "it does need a bit more current than what is needed to make an LSx coil charge" I would expect peak Amps to be about 6-8A per coil so a 15A fuse and wiring slightly higher (eg 32/020 thinwall) should be more than adequate.

On my coilpack setup I use a 20A fuse and 28/030 but that is total overkill, I only used it as my (independant) IGBTs are rated 24A.
Again, if I reached a 20A charge current, my coilpack would soon die but the fuse is allways there to protect the wiring against overheating from a faulted component.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

well i think i understand? haha

so i guess first whould it be a good idea to split the coils in pairs? or just bang them on one fuse together? ive got a nice fuse box that holds 10 so i plan to move the factory stuff in to the new box as my turbo will likely melt the old one where it was..

im a correct to think if they are in pairs i can use two 7A-10A and if they are all together use a 15A?

possibly pair up cylinders that are charging 180 degrease apart?

so i think ive got everything where i need to to start terminating wires to plugs and the fuse box n bits

in the pic ive put red boxes over what im useing orange on what i plan to use and the rest is un used at this point..

so far my questions are
where should i put the oil temp sender? sump, my adapter plate where the std filter goes or some place else?
im useing a 13 row cooler, thermostat set for 85c - 90c and a big remote full flow filter so i could put it before the cooler, sump, right before its feed to the gally

next what spare wires are normal used for extra sensors like the oil temp also pressure as id like to see how things are going over time using a plot with rpm, temp and pressure to help keep an eye on things

id like to keep the flex fuel for future use

i want to install a wheel speed sensor as well so that will need an input to

i need an out put for the therm o fan too

need an output for low oil pressure light as id like to not have a bunch of fittings hanging out of the block the "T" feeding the turbo is bad enough i think lol

as for the intake air timp sender im thinking about tapping it in to the cold side of the IC? or perhaps welding a bung onto the feed adapter plate i made to the carb plemum?
ether way its only like 8 inches difference if straight pipe so dose it really matter i think closer to the carb is better?

as for a TPS im still yet to buy one not really sure if id like to pay the cash that some places are asking lol the junk yard seems the likely place just need to get down there..

wide bands are sorted

coolant sender for ecu wheres the best place for that? id like to retain the std one for my dash but id like the ecu one to so im thinking of drilling the therm o stat housing? if not in the hot side of rad but that may not be such a true reading?
unless the ecu can send a signal out the resembles the std sender unit? then i could put the ecu sender in the std location...??

crank and cam are good well need to fad the bracket and crap but thats later on

how do i set up the data log button?

Edited by Rod S on 10th Dec, 2013.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

thanks rod for clearing that up lol
i will just use the one fuse 10A for the lot and some 15A wire job done

not much happening lately but ive been messing with the wiring atm witch leads me to my question and the point of this post

for a wheel speed sensor should i use the same shielded wire as my cam and crank sensors?
or dose it not matter so much with a wheel speed sensor as it will just be for speed o and other things

For the sake of a few extra pence (cents for you) I would use it.

I have anyway. Partly because it is stronger than plain cabling (so better for the exposed bits down to the hubs). If you're using Hall switch pickups (rather than VR) you could probably get away with plain cabling with carefull routing avoiding "noisy" area (ie, ignition or injector wiring) but, depending on what you're using the speed sensors for, you say spedo and "other things", (in my case it's TC where I don't want a false signal from noise to activate it) the small extra cost is just piece of mind.

But, unless you have already used it for the cam/crank, search out some cable with a braided screen. The cheaper shielded cables tend to use aluminium foil rather than copper braid. Proper copper braid shielding means the cables will last much better in the areas they are continually flexing (as the suspension moves), just like the stainless steel braiding of flexible brake pipes. What I then did to make them even more durable in the exposed areas was put a piece of plain copper braiding sleeve over the outside of the (already) braided cable and heatshrink sleeve over that. Total overkill but I already had the copper braid sleeve the right size from another project.....

EDIT - typos

Edited by Rod S on 12th Jan, 2014.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

sounds like ill just use shielded stuff to be safe and hassle free
what sensor are you using if u dont mind?
ive not thought to much about the wheel movement have you taken a route similar to the brake line?

ive started to crimp plugs on wires for coils, thermo fan, IC pump, CLT, IAT, oil pressure n temp
but buggered up on a coil so now need some replacement pins for the ING 1A coil type coil
so far ive gotten things to work as expected still lots to go tho

is there a way i can get my crank n cam sensors to give ms there signals while ive got the dummy engine in the car? short of making some kind of convoluted contraption haha
perhaps using the stim?

still haven't gotten to the junk yard for a TPS and pig tail hopeing to find something that can push on tight to the HIF44 butterfly shaft with a simple sheet metal mount

ive got the FP and filter/trap coming so will test out the flow rate at set pressure once installed want to be sure it flows since ill need more for the E85

also have a nice 38mm tial MVS Watergate that i need to fit up =D

not sure what im doing for a rad fill and expansion tank

engine shop said they should be all most finished tomorrow kinder getting tired of waiting haha but dont want to push and piss them off afraid them might bodge it or something

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

rod do i need to have that Manny signals per rev?
plan to use my wheel speed to find out Kph, gear #, fuel efficiency, trip meter if i can? novelty things really

no prob ill have to wait to check the cam crank when i do the pre start oil prime

this arvo ive been messing with a second temp sender that ill use for a good indercator on engine wear/problems
ill plot RPM, temp, pressure for instance if at the time of build and the early run hours of the engine i had say 45psi at 80c and 1200rpm but for some reason some time later it only gives 20psi at 80c and 1200rpm ill know something is wrong perhaps before it goes bang?

any how ive gotten the pressure to work useing spare adc input and the 5v ref n sensor ground pin 19 this sender gives a 0-5v 0-100psi ive tested this too and it reads dam near used compressed air and a few fittings n 0-150psi gauge had to tweek the at 0v display and at 5v display settings but it now reads correct all the way 0-100 psi give or take a few psi

but cant get the temp to work? its that same sender as the coolant one so it uses a restance? rather than output voltage?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/261260635816?ssPag...984.m1423.l2649

http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/gm-clos...ctor-p-115.html

so since the temp gives an ohms reading what input do i use so ms can read it?



also got the thermo set up using injector E