7 porter progress, Engine build Number....seven?? ....now K1200
Turbo Mini Forums

cool, looking forward to hearing it run - another "up top" turbo install!!!

JK

If Carling made Mini engines
it would probably be like this one!

up top indeed, none of this bulkhead cutting here!

ok got the tanks soldered up last night (Silver solder is my new best freind!!)
and tonight i have cleaning them out, first a load of caustic, then a load of phosphoric, tomorow night they wil get a dose of POR tank sealer, this should make them vertually rust proof, and happy to hold alcohol....

hmmmm,

if anyone i thinking of using the POR tank sealer stuff, beware, on the tin it says to tip it in swirl it around a bit then tip it back into the tin, top up with waterand leave overnight to harden.

I left the in on my work bench in the middle of a load of tools, the POR foamed up and spread all over the bench incasing everything in a stiff plastic gooo.

still, got the tanks in today and the fuel reg and hoses. will mount the pump and filter tomorow.

luckily my eyes were nowhere near as it did this overnight, still chipped all the tools out ok and the coating looks to have taken well to the inside of the tanks so cant complain really.

just fitted the last of the hose clips and fired up the fuel pump, got a nice healthy 3bar fuel pressure with only one small leak at the end of the fuel rail where the copper washer hadn't seated properly.

:)

weeeellllll......

I can't get the bastard to run!

been fucking around the best part of 2 full days now, i can get it to fire but it immediately dies.

I'm positive its fueling issues, but I can't work out if its to rich or to lean or what. also it could be the fuel pump that sounds like a hammer drill.

got a new pump on order so will try that when it turns up.

In the meantime if any one is running MS what values of cranking pulsewidth, after start enrichment, and after start taper are you running with what size injectors, i will try to scale them to try to get a ball park for my 46lb/hr injectors.

Hi,
Sounds like you need more afterstart to me... We always use a ratio of 3:1 for cold to hot crank pulse widths, seems to work on everything.
Cheers,
Gavin :)

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My Mini build diary

so,

in the afterstart table thats 300% right?

From my current working setup:

After start:
-12 45%
-1 43%
10 41%
21 39%
32 37%
43 35%
54 33%
66 31%
77 28%
82 25%

Cranking Pulse:
-12 325%
-1 301%
10 276%
21 251%
32 226%
43 201%
54 176%
66 151%
77 126%
82 101 %

Warm Up Enrichment
-40 180
-29 180
-18 160
-7 150
4.4 135
15.6 125
26.7 113
37.8 108
54.4 102
70 100

ASE Taper
-12 350
-1 330
10 310
21 290
32 270
43 250
54 230
66 210
77 180
82 150

Your REQ FUEL should be 4.4 for a 1293.

Cranking advance 5 degrees with 6ms dwell.

Edited by Paul S on 6th Jul, 2008.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

What Inlet Air Control are you using? Stepper, PWM ?

It could be that you are not getting enough air in to let it run.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

thanks guys,

great stuff paul, i am just inputting those figures, (which i think are what i started with)


yes using a stepper, set to on all the time.

the only time its firing is with the throttle pretty much held all the way open.

I will quadruple check the timing also.

if you need a hand Joe give me a call mate.

hmmm, weird,

i seem to be getting 5 deg ATDC rather than BTDC, it also seems not to change when i alter the tigger ofset to correct it.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

I do, unless i forget lol.

i thnk i've figured that one out now tho, to quote the manual....

"The Trigger Angle/Offset is ignored in Toothed Wheel mode, so leave it at zero. The angle used now is the angle that Tooth #1 passes the sensor at, this is set in Trigger Wheel Setting"

basically meaning it will do fuck all and i need to adjust it elsewhere.....

If you have the missing tooth in line with the crank keyway and the sensor in the conventional position, 90 degrees before TDC then you have to tell it that the tooth angle is 80 degrees.

I think it goes somewhere under the trigger wheel settings.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

sort of made progress,

set the timing to 5 deg btdc, still the same.

have varied the fueling to massivly rich and still the same,

but stuffed a propane torch into the inlet and its trying to run, so there seems to be a fuelling issue.

about to break out a scope and have a look at the injector signals....

I would start with checking that Megatune is seeing the cranking rpm and you are getting a good spark.

Check you've got 12v at the injectors, fuel pump, coil pack and EDIS (if using it) whilst cranking.

Have you got 3 Bar pressure at the fuel rail?

The fueling should go - tank - pump - filter - rail/injectors - regulator - tank. Just in case you have the reg in the wrong place.

Good luck.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

I know who your felling mate, fucking frustrating to say the least!!!

Have you worked out your required fuel etc yet?

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1/4mile in 13.2sec @ 111 terminal on 15psi

RIGHT!!

success!! sort of......

i just had it running for 30-45 secs with the aid of a blow torch fuelling it up the throttle body,

only trouble is i forgot i'd pulled the dizzy banking plug out so now there's oil everywhere!!

still i know the ignition is not the issue.

deffinatly have it plumbed right, have it plumbed as per pauls sequence above.

the fuel press gauge shows 3 bar, but it does fluctate occasionaly due to the noisy pump, i was assuming it would be ok to get it started on but maybe not,

I think i am going to quit while i'm ahead until all the oil drainds to the floor and i can wipe it up then wash the residue off the front of the car.

I will get another pump on it and go from there.

Sounds like the pump is not up to the job.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Sounds as if your VE table is lean to me. If you are adding fuel via propane and it runs, its lean, if the afterstart and Warm up are set similar to Pauls then the only other thing that can cause it to run lean is either the VE value set too low or the set up of the injectors

What cc are your injectors and are you running batch fire?

Edited by Sprocket on 7th Jul, 2008.

injectors are (should be although i am now starting to wonder) 46lb/hr or 490cc/min they are pico IWP069's.

tried batch and alternate, 2&4 squirts, tried req fuel from 1-15

the fuel Ve table is around 75% at the point it attampting to run at.

Oh and what Bat is saying is that cranking pulse widths for Petrol seem to be a rule of thumb 3:1, thats 3 times the pulse width at -40 as it is at 72, this gives you a linear enrichment for cranking.

Afterstart has two scaling factors, time, usualy engine cycles, thats how long it takes to go from the high to low values, again linear. 35% is usualy enough tapered down to 10% over roughly 100 engine cycles at the most.

Warm up is not linear and pretty specific to the different type engines, its a tunable point, but a generic table will get you running step up from the +72 at 100% in 10% steps, so if you have 8 points, the % at -40 would be 170%

What you have to remember is that the cranking pulse widths are the actual required pulse widths to start the engine, it does not refference from VE table.

Once started, the engine is then running on Afterstart+ Warmup + VE table

Once the afterstart has run down, the engine is then running on Warm up table + VE table

And once up to temperature the engine is running on the VE table alone

Excluding any Gamma corrections as calculated

What numbers have you got in your VE table? I would set them all to one value accross the table then gradually increase the req fuel.

Try setting the req fuel to 3 then put 100 accross the ve table, thats about the point I got mine running on 480cc injectors.

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1/4mile in 13.2sec @ 111 terminal on 15psi