Who's actually got this running on a 5 port???
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I understand that one of Jims main concerns is getting it setup on a Dyno and the available expertise to help get the results that he is looking for. Having had a pure racer sat in the garage for a year just needing setting up, I can fully understand.

However, if I was tasked with setting up a wet manifold system with limited opportunities for adjusting the fuel distribution or, alternatively, a point injection system with an injector timing table (same as a spark advance table) that allows you to richen the inners with a bit more advance and vice versa, I know which one I would choose.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

But Dave,

That's just back full circle to siamese code injection - the ability to time the injection pulses into tiny windows with large injectors (and MS2 allows different VE tables as well).

Jim's original point was that no RR operator understood that.

I agree entirely it would be the best solution (esp as you say injectors right by the head) but if there isn't a RR willing to try it, it misses the point (I think).

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

No, Jims point was that no RR operator who would be willing to use megasquirt understands that.
In Dave walker he has someone who understands the problem, and has an ECU that (at least for nat-asp) has the adjustability to make this work (in theory of course).

I'll be blunt here - I hear this a lot stateside about megasquirt, and it seems to be the same in the UK; that many RR operators don't want to be associated with MS - perhaps they see it as potentially giving problems, which comes back on them? I think it genuinely is more the stigma of it.

Edited by TurboDave16V on 14th Sep, 2012.

If the Emerald has the features of fully sequential and an injection timing table, plus Dave Walker to set it up, why not go port injection????

I don't use anything siamese specific on my engines now. Just a standard MS3/3X....

Edited by Paul S on 14th Sep, 2012.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Paul - so you do have an injection advnace, but is this per individual (or paired) cylinders, or just one advance table for all? The Emerald just has one advance table. It also has the ability to set the injection 'point' at the start or end of injection (basically advancing the 'turning on' of the pulse as the injector pulse grows).
I'm thinking, and I'm sure i read that you guys have individual timing, but I can't see any major disadvantages - as you say, the priority is getting the fuel to make it into the outside cylinders without being too early or too late...

Edited by TurboDave16V on 14th Sep, 2012.

Just a single pulse for each pair of cylinders and a single advance table. Mid pulse, so that AE, ASE etc spread the pulse each way.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Part of me is saying "Jim, fit this induction system to your engine and hook up to your Emerald and see what you can do"

Edited by Paul S on 14th Sep, 2012.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Well we all agree - just need to convince Jimbo now that port injection for such a peaky, nat-asp motor really will benefit more from having straight runners (instead of the two near-90 degree bends of the MG metro inlet) and the ability to tune these runners with tapers and bellmouths (compared to the wet manifold).

Edited by TurboDave16V on 14th Sep, 2012.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Wow.

I take it back, let me rephrase:

Well, it appears that some of us have a mutual agreement that on paper, Emerald has the capacity to run port injection, and that Jimbo should perhaps try this as the lead approach.

Sorry for any confusion, upset or otherwise.

Edited by TurboDave16V on 15th Sep, 2012.

Yes the emerald is a good piece of kit for the money, I'm now thinking of getting a motec ect as an up grade.

Best 1/4 mile 13.2 seconds @116 mph
First 5 port miniturbo to make over 200 bhp on a carb?
First 5 port miniturbo to make over 200 bhp on Injection?

http://www.mattwoodsphotography.com

On 14th Sep, 2012 TurboDave16V said:
Wow.

I take it back, let me rephrase:

Well, it appears that some of us have a mutual agreement that on paper, Emerald has the capacity to run port injection, and that Jimbo should perhaps try this as the lead approach.

Sorry for any confusion, upset or otherwise.

On 4th Sep, 2012 TurboDave16V said:
So who is running the MS EFI then, and what HP has been achieved?

dum de dum...

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

On 14th Sep, 2012 TurboDave16V said:
Wow.

I take it back, let me rephrase:

Well, it appears that some of us have a mutual agreement that on paper, Emerald has the capacity to run port injection, and that Jimbo should perhaps try this as the lead approach.

Sorry for any confusion, upset or otherwise.

On 4th Sep, 2012 TurboDave16V said:
So who is running the MS EFI then, and what HP has been achieved?

dum de dum...

Edited by Rod S on 15th Sep, 2012.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

last night I got my wet manifold injection wired up and runnning. I'm on the rolling road Friday, I'll either come back with metled pistons or a grin. I still want to keep my 100bhp per litre, but gain drivability.

Team www.sheepspeed.com Racing

go big or go home.... let us know how you get on jim and your unbiased thoughts :)

Good luck jim

Yes i moved to the darkside

Instagram @jdm_brett

A long day, but after leving the house before 6am, and getting home after midnight I can confirm that back to back tests on the rolling road saw 3bhp gains with efi wet manifold over a 45. With the efi torque came in earlier, and held on for longer. I'll post photos when I get a chance. I'm using 4 injectors. And a single 52mm TB ( which I think is too large for a 1120cc)

Team www.sheepspeed.com Racing

Congrats Jim. Would like to see comparisons of the graphs. Shame you didn't get the dual wide bands in time.

If something is worth doing, it's worth doing half of.

Nice going Jim.

WWW.TURBO-MINI.COM

That's interesting Jim.
Any pictures of the efi setup?

Dazed and Confused....

Just seen a vid on bookface sounds proper!! Good result👍

I still need to upload some pictures. I'll try and do this tonight when I get home, there are a few on my facebook page.

All has been good with the engine, two rolling road sessions (over 100bhp per litre) 9 race starts, 9 race finsihes and a race win. I've had the head of to check everything over and it all looks much better than it did when it was breathing through a 45 carb. The next stage is to make a new manifold whihc does not use a SU manifold, which is nice and long for better lower end torque. This works so well out of the box I'll never run a carb again on any a series engine I own.

Team www.sheepspeed.com Racing

I never took any notice of this as FI just goes over my head, but im gonna have to read all of this when I get a chance

I seriously doubt it!

Jim are you using the SC kit then or a home brew?

I run a supercharger and I don't care the TB is on the wrong side.
VEMS + 12 PSI + Liquid Intercooler = Small Bore FUN!