astra 1.4 8valve lpg turbo.
Turbo Mini Forums

Our Oscar on my desk:



He has decided that my desk is his current favourite place. Not looking too happy as I disturbed his nut wash :)

Apologies for thread jacking.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

I take your Oscar and raise my Wispa (no nut washing, she's female) who conveniently jumped up whilst your post was on-screen (my old camera was next to me this time).

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

good grief its all gone a bit ...




well on another note , its a runner on ignition only ,so thats good ..

interestingly ,the pip output was not enough on ms to trigger the revcounter and propane rpm sensor to open the valves ..so i used another trigger off my msd ,and that was fine .

strangely the pip output was fine for the mjolt .

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

I'm now waiting for Oli to give Pussy Galore a whippet and a flat cap.

If something is worth doing, it's worth doing half of.

Dont tempt me like that!

On 5th Oct, 2014 Shauna said:
What that's crazy, you go commando hahaha! How heavy is your helmet ?

oh some things i am trying to solve are , the wide band output seems to only register on tuner studio at startup ,then the needle doesnt move , maybe it only starts to register after it has got up to temp ?

also ,when i set the 3 resistances in the air temp calibration ,its asks me to fill in the resistor bias box , no idea what this is !

edit 2.49k resistors on the board seem to be the bias resistors spoken of ....maybe !


ediited AGAIN ,i can change to centigrade in th projects tab ,and also the type of o2 sensor ,so will have a go at that and see .

Edited by robert on 30th Nov, 2012.

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

Widebands don't normally work for about 30sec (internal heater has to get to temperature) so shouldn't register at all until they are heated - have you got the correct settings in the MS2 (Tuner Studio, tools, calibrate AFR table, for it's output curve and TunerStudio, basic setup, EGO control for the sensor type and input port).

And don't forget that stoich AFR is different for propane than petrol - the wideband actually measures lambda but you have to have the right calibration (and target to aim for) if you want to display AFR.

Bias resistor value is the standard 2.49k unless the board has been built with a different value to suit a non-standard sensor (locations R4(air) and R7(water) if you want to check).

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

yup , 15.7 is stioch , one aims for around 14:1 on power ,and as high as it will go on cruise , possible 18 to 19:1.

i am using the wb after its warm and reading , but i think i have steped over the project input tab ,so tomorrow will fill that in too .

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

in TS you need to go to FILE > PROJECT > PROJECT PROPERTIES... then the settings tab.

you can pick the sensor type in there, might have to try a few to find one that closely matches the reading of the wideband

failing that, it will be in the tools tab... tuner studio is laid out diferently for different codes.

and yep the 2.49k is the bias value, i thought this was in TS as a default, but perhaps not,

strange about the PIP output, I'll have a think on that one.

well finally connected it all up today , and oh yes , what a damp squib!
1st thing to notice was 31 psi pressure , so a bit high , persevering, i cranked it over ,got a few coughs etc ,but nothing to say ''it runs ''
so hoicked out the lead to have a chat with the ms2..... no connection ,then momentary connection then nothing ,so i think i may have a duff serial lead .so i could not turn the req fuel up or down to get it to fire .the noticed gas pressure now at 60 psi , oh dear .

so either i have had a bit of a back fire and it has popped a bit more gas in there to the level thet the inj cannot bleed it off on cranking , or the regulator is leaking ... it all looked fine when i took it apart but i suppose i had better have another look.. now back on the ring system . :?

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

ok doke , well i have a new lead no joy ,tried a xp laptop ....joy! no problem connecting ,so i have twisted the mind of my vista pc till it cannot find its watsit from it doofah ,and must fix that .

service kit for the reducer is here from sunny poland in just 4 days ,and i will get that in and try again .
in case anyone wonders how cold ones feet get in wellies, in a car in the drive ,on snow for an hour with no heating ,the answer is .VERY COLD.

Edited by robert on 21st Jan, 2013.

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

Robert, never saw your 12th Jan post and only just seen your new one.

If you now have a connection between laptop and the MS, what do the settings look like and did you get any error messages from your previous settings.

I guess the base settings on the MS are going to be a lot different for propane than petrol - on the MS-Extra forums they usually ask you to post your msq....

Not sure if the TM forum will allow such files to be posted but it would be interesting to see.

And, yes, it's very cold here from about 3hrs on the drive shovelling snow as my worthless Mondeo can't actually get through 6" on the drive to the salted road outside......

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

well well WELL!!!

it only runs !

i inserted my new kit into the reducer , noticing in passing that the small spring looked a bit rough on the end as if it may have at one time been a larger spring..

then put in on the car ,fired up the xp laptop ,which WILL talk to the ms2 ,and tried to start it , fuel pressure was 15 psi.

bit of a stutter ,then nothing much ,so increased inj time to 2.8s .still nothing ,so started increasing req fule in steps ,got to 20 ,and off she went ,finally got it to run quite responsively on req fuel 17 .

at this point the header tank started to blow off .... odd i thought not hot ...oh oh ,blown head gasket ? bit of investigation later ,lpg in water circuit ,gasket on reducer not sealing .

also noticed fuel pressure had crept up to 25 then 40 psi ,so thats not working either .

so 2 steps forward and 1 step back .

took the rducer apart ,noticed the orange gasket on the water side is slightly textured ,whereas the original is smooth , so either they used some sealant on the original , or this new gasket is poor.

ref the gas pressure ,the small spring that sits behind the gas valve , on my one is terminated by a simple break in the large coiled end ,this creates a tilt on the spring when it has the backplate on it ,is this normal ,or has the end of the spring broken off ? this may explain the creeping pressure rise and there would not be enough force on the pintle to seal the gas .

on the good side , at least i know for sure my injectors work with my resistor pack . :)

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

hello chaps,

well, i had the engine running for an hour last week , very very rich off idle ,and no responses from the gas temp sensor and the air temp sensor .

so today i will have a measure of thier resistances on the bench and see what putting those numbers in does .
i had a play with different resistances , just putting into the boxes what numbers created the right temp on the dashboard guages in ts , they move in response to my inputs ,they dont move in response to the engine running up to fan cutting in temp.

reducer now getting nice and hot and not exploding the rad ,and the fuel pressure nice and steady .

Edited by robert on 9th Feb, 2013.

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

well!

having got off my fat booty and overcoming loads of other emergency projects , I have a chance to mess with this a little more ..

.and im not making much progress!!!


I have it running at tickover , I have the auto mixture thing going ,and that makes it a good mixture .anything more rpm wise produces a running on 2 sort of effect and popping in the zorst .

I have req fuel at 19 , and numbers in the map around 40 to 70 . I think I will pop a req fuel of 12 in there ,and increase the map numbers proportionally to create more resolution ,this might make it easier for th auto tune to work .

both sensors air temp and coolant temp work well , coolant temp is plugged into gas temp ,and goes from -15 to +70 as the car warms up .

fuel pressure is 20 psi .

injectors are clicking if I listen with a steel bar against my ear/inj.

if I pull off each inj plug rpm drops the same for each inj from 1100 to 900 rpm.

I tried 4 squirts ,but it didn't like that no matter what I did with the map ,and I tried simultaneous and it would not fire at all.


my msq is the stingray one ,and the other msq is one from an American chap that has his car running well on these injectors ...notice the 1s opening time ?

I hope to get out there on Tuesday and make more noise .


regards robert



hmmm ,they don't appear to have attached ..... i'll try again ..

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Edited by robert on 21st Jun, 2014.

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

I'll try and pretend that I understood that

if changing the number of squirts per cycle radically changes the engine running then your injector constants/dead time etc are not set up correctly theres defo an article on this in the manual somewhere.

turbo 16v k-series 11.9@118.9 :)

Denis O'Brien.

zacto denis , hence my ''notice the 1s'' earlier , finding the correct details for these I seem to remember was a bit difficult so I have simply copied the us blokes setup,just as a starting point .

having said that ,wasn't there a bit about this earlier in the thread ? i'll have a look .

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

here we go ..
TIME FOR PEAK CURRENT 4,5 ms
6 RESISTANCE 3 Ohm +-4% - 1 Ohm +-4%
12 OPENING TIME 3,3 ms

13 CLOSING TIME 2,2 ms



hmmm so that looks very different to the 1s opening time in his and my msq's...

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

1ms is pretty quick, and I'd be suprised if an LPG injector was that fast.

according to this ,from the manual


'' Note that the closing time should theoretically be subtracted from the opening time,''

that would give me 3.3ms-2.2ms=1.1ms .

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

eh? surely it should be added,

I wonder if its worth playing with the inj timing delay in case I am trying to flow a gas into a inlet reversion period..?

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM