Rod's build thread - new title - TSCi
Turbo Mini Forums

Yes, I was intending to use the standard location rings anyway, that is why I measured it all up and set the runners low on the first piccys so I could put a bit of weld at the bottom, blend the radius, and then mill the recess for the locating ring.

What p******s me off is that the second exhaust manifold is so completely different to the first, to the extent that I will have to alter the angles of the runners to make it interchangeable with both setups....

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

its a good job you found out now, rather than having to chop up a freshly made plenum just to create the clearance for the swap!

edit while I sort the pics out.......

Edited by Rod S on 6th Feb, 2009.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Right, gave up with Firefox, I'll just have to use IE...... insecure but it works....


Not much yet but with the current weather (nowhere near as bad over here as some of you have) I decided I needed to clear the garage to get my "other 4x4s" in as both are out of MOT at the moment.

These are some of the bits of trailer I bought a while ago being made into a temporary trolley...


Clearing the garage










Back in the garage


And some more lathe tools I bought to get the injection system built....


Ohh, and the cat....

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

oooh rotary table, dead handy!

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

rod, i know you were looking at fuel reails a little while back and looking at the injectors not being inline for a common rail.

http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=h...l%3Den%26sa%3DN

go down and click on the image of the injector, it will open a PDF. Then go to Page 4 and look in the bottom right hand corner. im at college and have just seen it and thought you might as well know

Thanks for the link James.

There was something similar in a link Jean pointed me at, my dilema is as soon as I use flexibles to the inlets, the injectors then need securing physically to the manifold.

I was hoping to "trap" them, ie, sandwich them between the manifold and a fixed solid fuel rail. That seems to be the way most OEMs do it nowadays although most still use a clip at the top - I assume the clip at the top is just for ease of assembly, ie, clip all four to the rail and push all four in the manifold together, then bolt rail in place.....

There are a variety of solutions to hold the injectors to the manifold, but it's all extra work !!!

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

mmmmmmmm sapphire cossie.

If something is worth doing, it's worth doing half of.

Haaaaa, yes.

No MOT at the moment (needs a new front CV boot) hence me emptying the garage of Mini.

In terms of the design of the plenum/airbox, manfold etc for the Mini, I've been trying to replicate the Cossie setup as far as possible because it's very basic (so simple to replicate) but works very reliably.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Nice pussy

www.miniman.com.au

"""LazyGoodForNothingSmartArseKnowItAllBackYardMiniMechanic"""

Well I had hoped to actually be welding bits of the injection manifold by now....

Lots of technical discussion on the MS part of the forum but this is the best I have to show so far





A change of plan.... because I have three options for the injectors, I've decided to not weld the larger tube (the one that makes a crude bellmouth inside the plenum) to the smaller runner tube, but to machine an O ring groove and make the plenum detachable from the runners. This way I can use one plenum for all versions of runners, ie,


two injectors side by side, or


two injectors in line.

Either way the plenum should be something like this


Maybe some welding tommorow......

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

i like the long runner with the injectors in series :)

I like the idea of a removable plenum. How are you planning on keeping it in place?

I also like the inline injectors. Is it possible to push them a bit closer by cutting the second boss similarly to the first one? Or is there any clearance issue with the injectors if you do that?

Jean

http://www.jbperf.com/

Keeping the plenum in place will initially be just a couple of grub screws from the outer tube down onto the inner. Initial tests will be N/A anyway so minimal load. Even under 1bar of boost, the loading would still be quite low.

The problem with the inline injectors is how long it makes the runner. In the photos, the single injector is the shortest it can possibly be made, allowing for a fuel rail.

The side by side is longer than might be possible but is allowing for flexible feeds instead of a rail.

The inline could be made shorter (I cut the tubes worst case as it's easy to shorten them, not so easy to lengthen them...) but the inline design fails anyway with the simple plenum because of the clutch master cylinder. I will need to make it shorter but fatter (it's just the end that fouls).

That's why I've decided to make the runners seperate so I only have to re-design one bit at a time.....

.....and there is a finite supply of aluminium in the world. :)

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Well I started welding all the inlet manifold bits together today...... not strictly true - I welded two runners last week and one was bad and the other straight in the bin

But I've been re-learning all the settings required for AC TIG over the weekend (it's at least 3 years since I last did aluminium and that was easy straight sections all the same thickness, not differing thicknesses and complex shapes) so off we go again....


Extension tubes welded to bottom part of plenum


and runners tack welded to manifold flanges

To get the alignment right the bottom of the runner will be built up at the manifold flange and the top profiled like the one from last week (the one I didn't bin, left of photo).


The way the inner tube seals to the outer is with two "O" rings, this is to allow me to try different injector configurations without having to make a whole new plenum each time. Bolts will be replaced with grub screws (on order).


But whilst still getting the weld settings wrong and trying to avoid melting through the thin section I actually managed to put enough heat into the thick section to destroy one of my "O" ring grooves (bottom right)..... so some more inavotive machining required...

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Good to see you making some progress Rod.

You have managed to fill me with dread at the thought of welding up my next manifold.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Silly question probably Rod but anytime I am mocking up stuff like this I make it out of steel first not as easy to work easier but more forgiving on stuff like this. Then when you had a working model convert it into alloy, the machining would be more time consuming but a good carbide bit and an evening and your away ??

Edited by PaulH on 1st Apr, 2009.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Well I've just done a final trial fit of the manifold/plenum/throttle body before final welding.

The clearance problem with the clutch master cylinder isn't as bad as I thought it would be and I can easily put a 45 degree chamfer on the bottom corner of the plenum as I move it backwards for the extra injectors....



My vertical angle went a bit out when I increased the runner angle to clear the larger exhaust manifolds and I obviously didn't compensate enough on the plenum front plate....

Now my real problem is actually the throttle body - too high even when I angle it down more than I want...
Or to be more specific, the ICV on top of the TB.
I could turn the TB on its side or even upside down but that would give all sorts of problems with crud in the ICV or the throttle spindle seals.



The problem is it gets worse as I move the plenum backwards for the additional injectors (ie, it gets lifted higher) so I'll probably have to add spacers to the attachment bit.

Edited by Rod S on 11th Apr, 2009.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

If you use a unipolar IACV from a Peugeot then it is shorter and has the terminals on the side.

It has the same mounting flange as the Rover IACV and is more suited to the Megasquirt. In fact MS can't handle the Rover valve.

Some discussion in this thread:

http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.p...tid=10807&fr=25

Edited by Paul S on 11th Apr, 2009.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

An interesting linked thread (all the "..." from Sprocket....)

My ICV is actually from a Rover 800, not an MPI and is four pin.
The whole TB (with ICV and TPS) was NOS from eBay and looked about the right size for what I wanted.....
(It was also dirt cheap...)
As far as I can tell from resistance measurements it's a standard bipolar item. I haven't yet sourced a connector (plug) so haven't tested it to prove it conclusively but I think it will work.

However, if the Peugeot one is a Marelli (and smaller) that appeals as most of the other sensors etc. I'm using are Weber/Marelli.

I'll try eBay.....

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Having been suitably concerned by Paul's comment and all the missing bits in the linked thread I thought I'd better test it before going any further....



Apart from the first thing it did was wound right out and the spring then shot the plunger across the room (as it became apparent there is no hard stop on this design until it's screwed into the TB)..... once reassembled and using my thumb to set the stop position, it happily runs in and out on varying "temperature".

I did a search on the part number and it's actually from a LandRover/RangeRover V6 or V8, not a Rover 800.

In fairness to the seller, he only said "NOS, believed to be for a Rover 800" - I just bought it as the TB was the right size, complete with ICV and TPS, was new, and cheap....

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

That's working OK then.

It also looks like the IACV has a different mounting flange to the Peugeot valve.

Can you not just spin the TB through 30 odd degrees to clear the bonnet.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."