Avon 08 rules - here goes nothing
Turbo Mini Forums

i thought avon was just a bit of fun and a drink or 4...

On 21st Feb, 2008 matty said:
Thats what camera stands were designed for....for those that are little unsteady on their feet..lol

No excuses now!

Best 1/4 mile 13.2 seconds @116 mph
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just a point to a earlier mention about nos. i think you will find that it is both a road legal substance. and also just another form of foreced induction. which both fall into class D. i dont run gas on my car and dont have a problem running against cars which do. absoloutly nobody that goes on this forum can say that matt woods car is not road legal but i still had to fight for his car to run class D last year. due to the fact that he has nos.

i think the confusion comes as there is another class that lists nitrous under the types of cars that run in it

Class D Forced induction eg. Turbo, Supercharged

Class H Race Mini ( Steel body shell) Unlimited cc, Turbo, Supercharged or Nitro's

It doesnt give a road class that actually says nitrous, but from days of yester year it has become law that nitrous wasnt allowed

Whether it actually is or not seems to be unclear

Edited by Nic on 1st Mar, 2008.

i'd have said NOS is road legal and for D class i would have said it was ok as a form of forced induction BUT should it be allowed on a car aswell as a turbo or charger? i think it would be a little unfair.

ive also said in the past that NOS is unfair in A,B or C class and i stand by that.

Surely this is all getting out of hand.

Nitrous is road legal so whats the problem. It is in theory a form of forced induction as well, so perhaps Nitrous cars from class A, B or C that are road legal that run gas should be put into class D. However I don't think any cars in any of the road legal classes that run gas at the mo are breaking any rules - nothing says gas is not allowed - and why should it if it is road legal.

On the twin cam front, they are still A series engines, they just have an after market head to help increase performance.

Nearly everyone who goes down that strip in class D falls into the same category. you all have aftermarket components to increase performance. How many of you use a different cam, use high lift rockers, use a steel lightened flywheel or have straight cut gears. All these things are aftermarket replacements to gain more power, allowing an engine to rev more freely or make components stronger.

Therefore anyone running a twin cam head (especially the KAD one as it was designed for the A-series engine and that only, and not adapted from another engine) has just gone down a different route to gain this extra power or getting the engine to rev more freely. But they haven't done anything different to anyone else, they are just using A-series engines with aftermarket components.

You guys aren't in a Mk1 concours arena where everything has to be original, you are tuning your engines to get everything you can of them.

Instead of being jeolous of what other people have, people should just be impressed that people have managed to create such engines, whether it comes down to a bigger bank balance or more engineering skills - what an achievement - I think they all deserve a pat on the back.

Just go there and have fun thats what it is all about. If you can't compete with some of these guys then don't - just compete with yourself and others with a similar set-up to you and try to better your own times.

All those running twin cams, or gas or both - keep up the good work looking forward to see how they run this year.

Edited by TurboDave16V on 10th Mar, 2008.

Well put Dave - the whole crux of this thing is to let everyone have fun - in the correct class for the car - plain and simple

As for NOS being forced induction - sorry not so - it is a chemical enhancer, it is not even a fuel type. NOS to engines is what steriods is to humans - good if its in the rules bad if its not!!

JK

If Carling made Mini engines
it would probably be like this one!

to mr JKD 16valve

so if changing the head for a non a series head that doesnt count as a major change, then surly i can change the block at the same time? so i can have a 9ltr V8 as long as i refit some mini rocker covers!?!?

engine is an engine a head is a head and a gearbox is a gearbox.

so if the class is A series 'engine', then the head is irrelevant? its down to classification, non a series have their own class

as far as im concerned if there is a clasification, and your car falls under that classification then thats where you should go. Untill they bring out a classification for Twin Cam A series like the turbo class, then they should go in the respective cc class or those lucky enough to have a turbo as well as, the turbo class.

Again, where 'road going' applies. Oterwise its a racer and again they have their own classes.

My own opinion on nitrous is that there is already a class for it, and that should either be turbo or the race class. A turbo crams more oxygen into the engine to burn more fuel, so does nitrous!, ones a chemical enhancer the other is mechanical.

and, any one that stoops so low as to hide nitrous in a car entered in the A, B and C classes, obviously feel its also wrong otherwise they wouldnt hide it in the first place.

At the end of the day (God, how I hate that saying) its all about fun, but anyone taking advantage of the lack of organisation to break the rules and win, have serious moral issues.

John K, I think we should have a 16v class of our own, sod the British Mini Club. Those who we dont know are not invited Where are all the people with engines that a certain builder says he has sold? :)

I like the idea of the Twin cam class - and would really like to take on the other tuners doing these same sort of conversions!!

If Carling made Mini engines
it would probably be like this one!

On 10th Mar, 2008 Sprocket said:
sues.

John K, I think we should have a 16v class of our own, sod the British Mini Club. Those who we dont know are not invited Where are all the people with engines that a certain builder says he has sold? :)

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1/4mile in 13.2sec @ 111 terminal on 15psi

I think we could allow either really!

If Carling made Mini engines
it would probably be like this one!

I think John makes a good point. NOS is listed as an acceptable mod in some classes, this infers to me that it's not acceptable in others.

Fastest 998 mini in the world? 13.05 1/4 mile 106mph

www.twin-turbo.co.uk

there is a seperate class that includes NOS but you'll find it in many of the classes

the is a class for non steel bodied minis, but you'll find fibreglass shelled cars in every class.

there are classes with CC limits but how can you check? are people cheating?

i think John and Wil are right that as there is a seperate class for nos that this implies its not allowed in the others

BUT

why worry about whether something is allowed even if its not metioned in the rules, when people cant stick to what IS in the rules!

if the rules say up to 1300cc and some one has more, then they are cheating. if it says must be road legal then no tax, insurance or mot and its also cheating.

Avon is just for fun so its some what disturbing that people feel a need to cheat against friends and then try and justify it.

turbo shed - well spoken!

If Carling made Mini engines
it would probably be like this one!

Can someone answer me this? Has a nitrous car ever won class D?

"Cars are a lifetime of pain"

from memory i dont recall a NOS only car to have entered D class, they tend to enter other classes. as they dont think they stand a chance. i think one has entered with turbo and NOS but didnt win

But

i would have thought a non forced induction car with NOS correctly set up could be competative in D class.

I had 25hp nitrous in 200? but was running DTA and making whopping 15-second passes...

I do know my mini was 'looked at' by my fellow competitors the year I took the Class D prize as i still had the solenoids installed - but the (empty) bottle was sat at home. :)

I don't recall anyone winning it with giggle gas - but if they did - they never mentioned it.

so whats the problem, If gas and turbo arn't competitive then can't they run and just get beaten and look bad??? just a question?

"Cars are a lifetime of pain"

er - nitrous and turbo are highly effective when working together - much more so than nitrous on a nat-asp...

yes i know i'm just trying to persuade everyone because i have nitrous and aa turbo and am going to run in class D cause its road legal. There especially good when you have progressive controllers and electronic boost controllers and can link it all togeather. But i understand everyones point of view i just think its road legal so why not be in that class.....but i am biased as i have lots of gas.

"Cars are a lifetime of pain"

Back once again like a renegade master

What are the laws about fibreglass mini shells (IE minuses) in any of the A,B,C,D groups with an a series engine and suspension?

Just brainstorming for future project ideas

Back once again like a renegade master