K1100 16V Turbo build...now transmission build.
Turbo Mini Forums

Hallo Bart,
A suggestion I made Matty was to cut the original bike box that and use the sides that carry the whole assembly and weld that into the mini box.
A challenge woud be to make the assembly where you can remove and fit shafts
I have no idea of the bike box size and feasability of above just thought I'd bring it up again.

Succes!
Han

Dazed and Confused....

Bart - im guessing those aren't pressure fead? The best thing to do is to fill the gearbox up with 3L of oil to see where the level sits (allowing 0.5L of oil to be elsewhere in the engine).

Han - the main issue with that is that the geabox bearing sits exactly where the crankcase meets the gearbox case. So you would have to weld both the sections together first...nothings simple! lol

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1/4mile in 13.2sec @ 111 terminal on 15psi

Matty
Indeed the shafts are not pressure fed, but just by oil entering the hollow part. Centrifugal forces will help to force it through the holes in direction of the bearing. Anyway, we must not forget the original mini shafts are also with needle roller bearings and massiv, no lube fro inside out. But the calculated harassment was a bit less than whta you squeeze out of your K1100 16V turbo...

Han,
I like your out-of-the-box thinking! But the main why to d was overcoming the perfect line boring issue. Aside the position as Matt mentioned, another trouble would be the tension in material after welding and possible warping of the structure. For sure larger area's have to be cut out so the impact is quite strong. IMHO it rocks when you manage to get all in the original case with almost no visible evidence.

cheers!

Dazed and Confused....

On 10th Aug, 2011 matty said:
Here's a couple of pics of the whole setup. Apart from the ones on here, I don't think ive got any more of the turbo setup to be honest.



This is before I had the flip front.

www.shag.no

one month is gone since the latest entry. any successful advancements, matty?

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Vegar - I'll try and dig a picture out, im sure ive got one somewhere.

Akrich - Apart from providing 3 seperate cad drawings to the machinist and waiting 6 weeks to be told the shaft hadn't been started, everything has kind of ground to a holt. lol

Its the waiting game now until I get the box back. Will update as soon as I have something though.

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1/4mile in 13.2sec @ 111 terminal on 15psi

Waiting never feels as a pleasure Matt, for sure.
I face the same matter currently.

Detail question about the shafts: what material you chose for it? EN24?

regards, Bart

Bart, from what I remember it was EN24, don't quote me on that though.

I made this jig up to accurately measure the centres. using marking blue I rotated the gears at varying centres, until the blue lined up wear the wear marks on the teeth, then checked the fell of the backlash.



EDIT: looks like photobucket have stopped you from being able to link photos?

Edited by matty on 7th Nov, 2012.

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1/4mile in 13.2sec @ 111 terminal on 15psi

Hi Matt, you mean this pic?
I "stole"it from your photobucket earlier this evening for my info database.
Glad to be your backup now.. Maybe you have to keep the largest side of the pic max 680 pixels. Helps for posting on most sites.

I truly admire your classic craftmanship in using marking blue. Makes me remember adjusting my first RWD diff. Try to explain that to the Tele Tubbie generation...

I hope to be able to check the gearbox sizes of a CBR1100XX Blackbird within two weeks. Of course I will let you know the findings and if they equal with my assumptions.

EN24 is a true English standard. But since ages it is the right sh*t for shafts. Tough inside and well able for surface hardeing.

How about trimming the Honda gears..? That seems to be a casted iron type, but awfully hard. I think if the lathe won't manage to tame it, I have to arrange "spark-eroding". And for the rough work of course just grinding.

My photo bucket seems to have changed to the 'new format' which seems to be geared towards FB and twatter.

What gears are you planning on on trimming?

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1/4mile in 13.2sec @ 111 terminal on 15psi

Trimming: one couple of gears of a Honda gearbox will be used for the connection from the mini input shaft to the honda primary shaft. I look for a couple which is close to 1:1, but I think it will be the 6th gear of the Blackbird box to be used. The gear with the bearing in it will be trimmed to fit the mini gears boss on the input shaft. So that means enlarging the hole and skim the dogs off. Below you see the merge of gears. Don't bother the helical one, as it just emphasizes the matter this is the transition point from mini to honda gear system.

The other gear will also loose its dogs and the outer ring of selector for removed so a flat face will be created. So that means I will use the 30 mm spline type of the secondary shaft also on the input shaft, but only where the outer gear is running.
See the first copy-paste idea of my shafts:

Actually I am still a bit in doubt about the way how to connect the reverse gear to the shaft. I want to use one of the gears that normally is used in the mini gearbox as intermediate gear. That one has a hole which is just the size of the mini thread. As the material is hardened, I still can grind it to get a cut on the back side, which can merge with the flat milled sides on the shaft in the thread area.
I will use the 1st gear of the mini idler shaft as intermediate gear. Just as the "mystery" box this one will be in constant mesh with the primary shaft.

I think about creating here and there lubrication channels or ditches to the bearings. Not that hard to develop, just grind or drill. Inspired by the honda box I consider to grind the outer ring of the outputshaft bearing (close to the diff pinion) with a flat face and use a bolt to lock the bearing against spinning in the box (those bearings are prone for it) Of course the jewel will be protected by a baffle plate from harrasments from upstairs (engine)

cheers, Bart

Im splining my reverse gear, like you say above. Then im going to bore out another 1st/reverse gear and run it on the needle rollers that the original mini layshaft uses. Im guessing the mystery box is running the idler gear for reverse in constant mesh with the primary shaft.

Were you thinking of splining the outside or the mini input gear to drive the modified bike gear?

As for oil squirters, I have a plan. :)

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1/4mile in 13.2sec @ 111 terminal on 15psi

some processes, like splining, I am dependant to favours of friends or family. If not necessary, then I will not play that joker.
Discussing with my collegue, who constructed complete drag race motorbike engines and boxes for Ton Pels' team (was a member racing too) he still feels confident with a shrink fit and a combination of "hard soldering" (silver or brass) and some final TIG welds outside.
One luck: if it spins, it can't do any harm to the box.

Amazing work mate, just reading it boggles my mind. :)

Hmm ive just had a measure of the gears and that could work out well doing it your way....

Ive designed my primary shaft to have the same spline as the mini 1st motion shaft, but nothing that can't be solved with sacrificing another input gear can't solve. I have acces to a cylindrical grinder, so boring out the bike gear shouldn't be too difficult, and it looks like the mini input gear isn't hardened on the outside either. :)

I'll be making some calls on Monday, to check the progress of my parts, ive gained some enthusiasm to get this finished now.

Adrian - thanks for the comments, all will become clear with the next update.

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1/4mile in 13.2sec @ 111 terminal on 15psi

Wow matty! This would have to be one of the best threads i've read. The best mini thread.

The engineering work is amazing, the concepts and execution really is excellent.
I have spent the past 3 days reading your thread, i was impressed with the BMW K-head conversion to start and then this idea to actually design and make a sequential box retaining mini bits has blown me away.

To all the contributors to your thread (mates and randoms) thank you for your intelligent and often humorous words. I usually skip through threads larger than 20 pages but i really couldn't this time! The constant converstation over time was thought provoking and interesting.

Good luck with the gearbox, the lightening and the engine. I look forward to following this thread (although probably quietly as im not up to the engineering level!)

Brad

Matt quick question been puzzling me for few years now.

With the cam belt, is there a chance something could be kicked up and jam the pullys when driving it on the road? since there isn't a cover protecting the belt? just one of things putting me off building a 16v a series.

Thanks
Stephen

it is good practice to use a cover, but tbh I have never heard of a cam belt issue due to debris, and have seen a lot of cars wth no covers,

have heard of a couple of people having belts come of from pegging through a deep puddle though.

must be a market for K belt covers.

Try to visit the gravel traps outside the race tracks I know of a couple engines who have jumped touths because of gravel. Saying that, I don't have the cover on my race car :)

www.shag.no

that sounds like a good test!

For a road driven car personally a cam belt cover is a must.
On the DON we changed the cam belt as the one on the car somehow developed a semi circular "tear" in the centre of the belt width - it was still running with this - only theory is that some foreign object must have caused it. Obviously we fitted a new one.