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 114 Posts Member #: 11728 Advanced Member Uden, Holland |
18th May, 2022 at 07:28:41pm
Hi guys,
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3588 Posts Member #: 655 Post Whore Northern Ireland |
20th May, 2022 at 01:40:56pm
if you want boost to do something different at different times, then no mechanical bleed valve will do that.
9.85 @ 145mph
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114 Posts Member #: 11728 Advanced Member Uden, Holland |
20th May, 2022 at 02:11:50pm
Cheap is not what I'm after, I want a bleedvalve that once it's set, I lock it and have no worries about it, always works well and wont malfunction, just simple and reliable. |
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3588 Posts Member #: 655 Post Whore Northern Ireland |
20th May, 2022 at 04:11:27pm
On 20th May, 2022 Yoda74 said:
Cheap is not what I'm after, I want a bleedvalve that once it's set, I lock it and have no worries about it, always works well and wont malfunction, just simple and reliable. A bleed valve will not allow you different boost, at different times. And a lot of the expensive ones....really are no better than a cheap plastic one. Some may have some form of boost blocking feature to try and assist spool, although I would probably suggest against that on a Mini But if you want "quality", stick with the usual brand names like Turbosmart etc. Certainly not "All" as he claims, but not a terrible video, just lacking in all. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYIL_XvlYTE 9.85 @ 145mph
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114 Posts Member #: 11728 Advanced Member Uden, Holland |
20th May, 2022 at 07:09:27pm
Adjustable boost is not what I want, just set it once at lets say 8psi, and leave it like that.
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3588 Posts Member #: 655 Post Whore Northern Ireland |
21st May, 2022 at 05:26:17pm
On 18th May, 2022 Yoda74 said:
Hi guys, As I’m looking for a bit more performance I’m thinking about taking out both and fitting a bleed valve to upgrade the boost mainly in lower revs and maybe a tiny bit in high revs. This suggested you wanted boost to vary at different rpm's. Which cannot be achieved with a simple mechanical valve. Some EBC's are quite cheap, and with adjustability in-car.....they do make a lot of sense for the user when used sensibly. Especially if it is one you can dial boost in vs say rpm, road speed etc. 9.85 @ 145mph
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114 Posts Member #: 11728 Advanced Member Uden, Holland |
22nd May, 2022 at 04:56:25pm
Ah, not translated that well, what I meant was that by fitting a bleed valve and set it to let’s say 9psi, the boost will be higher than with my ecu fitted. The ecu keeps the boost at 4psi in lower revs, 7 in higher, so the power will be better mainly in low revs and a bit in high. My Dutch To English translation sometimes is not perfect… |
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2488 Posts Member #: 1954 Post Whore Luton Bedfordshire |
22nd May, 2022 at 08:13:10pm
first things first if your running with the T3 as originally fitted to the Metro turbo that puppy can boost over 2 bar thats 28psi. you don't want that.
Own the day
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 428 Posts Member #: 10128 Senior Member Dorset |
23rd May, 2022 at 08:27:01am
On 18th May, 2022 Yoda74 said:
Does in car add any value? Cheers I've always avoided having any adjustment within reach, the devil makes work for idle thumbs and all that. If you can reach it, you'll fiddle. Expense awaits! |
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114 Posts Member #: 11728 Advanced Member Uden, Holland |
24th May, 2022 at 10:55:58am
I think you may be right e5tus. Under the bonnet Will be safer.
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3588 Posts Member #: 655 Post Whore Northern Ireland |
24th May, 2022 at 09:30:44pm
On 24th May, 2022 Yoda74 said:
I think you may be right e5tus. Under the bonnet Will be safer. @Joshua: why keep the ECU and solenoid? Why not loose them Both ? if you retain the OEM control as well, you could still try and achieve a rising boost. But say instead of the 4psi/7psi, it might be 7psi/11psi as you would be tricking the ecu into thinking there is less boost overall, but it would still behave in a similar manner Running less boost in the mid range, your gearbox will be happier and live a little longer, so maybe not a bad thing. Although you then have a couple of boost control items in there which is a little messy. I'd far sooner prefer a single boost controller. With a suitable EBC, you could ramp boost with rpm, throttle, and/or road speed or gears ( as long as you can give this information to the unit ) But that's maybe a little less simple than just a cheap bleed valve. 9.85 @ 145mph
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2488 Posts Member #: 1954 Post Whore Luton Bedfordshire |
25th May, 2022 at 09:08:36pm
On 24th May, 2022 Yoda74 said:
I think you may be right e5tus. Under the bonnet Will be safer. @Joshua: why keep the ECU and solenoid? Why not loose them Both ? If you only had the bleed valve then max boost will only be achieved at max revs. the ecu is reading intake pressure and maintains the programmed in max pressure by controlling the waste gate via the solenoid valve. by introducing a controlled leak into the sense line off the ecu you can lower the sense line pressure, from the 7psi down to say 2psi. This would cause the ecu to stop operating the solenoid valve closing the waste gate and causing the boost pressure to climb until there is enough flow of boosted air to overcome the leak. To achieve this the turbo might have to spool up to produce say 12 psi before the ecu registers 7psi and starts operating the solenoid valve to open the waste gate. So now the ecu is seeing 7psi but the intake is at 12 psi. Own the day
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3588 Posts Member #: 655 Post Whore Northern Ireland |
27th May, 2022 at 09:59:56pm
On 25th May, 2022 Mr Joshua said:
On 24th May, 2022 Yoda74 said:
I think you may be right e5tus. Under the bonnet Will be safer. @Joshua: why keep the ECU and solenoid? Why not loose them Both ? If you only had the bleed valve then max boost will only be achieved at max revs. the ecu is reading intake pressure and maintains the programmed in max pressure by controlling the waste gate via the solenoid valve. by introducing a controlled leak into the sense line off the ecu you can lower the sense line pressure, from the 7psi down to say 2psi. This would cause the ecu to stop operating the solenoid valve closing the waste gate and causing the boost pressure to climb until there is enough flow of boosted air to overcome the leak. To achieve this the turbo might have to spool up to produce say 12 psi before the ecu registers 7psi and starts operating the solenoid valve to open the waste gate. So now the ecu is seeing 7psi but the intake is at 12 psi. The OEM system is a very crude simple open/closed solenoid with an rpm trigger ( 4500rpm ) which opens the solenoid to allow a higher boost level. It does not have any means of closed loop control to actually control or target any boost setting Really though the best thing is just get rid of the OEM stuff and just run either a bleed valve or proper EBC. If it's still a low boost setup, the extra boost low down will make it feel a lot faster. Having used many forms of boost control over the last few decades....I would absolutely use a decent electronic boost controller. They just give you more flexibility and options even if a simple mechanical valve can work too. Plus whilst there are caveats with in car adjustability....it also makes setting up a lot easier than driving, getting out, bonnet open, messing, back in, drive about...repeat etc. Same with carbs vs EFI.....both can work, the former usually very annoying when tuning, the latter a little less so. 9.85 @ 145mph
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2488 Posts Member #: 1954 Post Whore Luton Bedfordshire |
28th May, 2022 at 04:56:07pm
The OEM ecu as fitted to the metro turbo has a boost reference line from the plenum chamber into the ecu. As stated above in standard trim above 4500 rpm the ecu ramps up the boost by means of rapidly opening and closing a solenoid valve bleeding pressure of the back of the waste gate actuator. The ecu carries out this function in order to raise the boost pressure from 4psi up uoto 7psi in some cases I have heard of 10psi. In order to hold this higher pressure it reads the pressure in the plenum chamber and when the the higher pressure is reached it regulates the solenoid valve to maintain this pressure. So above 4500 by the the introduction of a bled valve you can increase your maximum boost from 7psi to what ever you wish knowing that even at a mind bending 9000rpm your only developing the boost you want. The ecu cannot control to a boost pressure unless it knows what the boost pressure is. Own the day
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2488 Posts Member #: 1954 Post Whore Luton Bedfordshire |
28th May, 2022 at 04:56:10pm
Double post deleted Edited by Mr Joshua on 28th May, 2022. Own the day
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2488 Posts Member #: 1954 Post Whore Luton Bedfordshire |
28th May, 2022 at 07:09:14pm
This is the line I am referring to. Note I'm guessing most people only pulled this to the fuel pressure regulator. In the metro turbo this line has a tee to feed pressure into the ecu. Own the day
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256 Posts Member #: 11017 Senior Member Shropshire |
29th May, 2022 at 04:12:10pm
Bin the ecu completely, fit a EBC (i recommend the AEM one) and enjoy! |
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3588 Posts Member #: 655 Post Whore Northern Ireland |
30th May, 2022 at 07:19:32pm
On 29th May, 2022 Steve220 said:
Bin the ecu completely, fit a EBC (i recommend the AEM one) and enjoy! EBC's make a lot of sense. The factory thing....not so much lol 9.85 @ 145mph
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114 Posts Member #: 11728 Advanced Member Uden, Holland |
19th Jun, 2022 at 01:57:00pm
Do you mean this one?
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3588 Posts Member #: 655 Post Whore Northern Ireland |
19th Jun, 2022 at 03:07:32pm
The AEM is a very very basic EBC with few options for control.
Edited by stevieturbo on 19th Jun, 2022. 9.85 @ 145mph
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114 Posts Member #: 11728 Advanced Member Uden, Holland |
7th Aug, 2022 at 06:39:44am
Just bought a GFB Atomic bleed valve.
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2488 Posts Member #: 1954 Post Whore Luton Bedfordshire |
7th Aug, 2022 at 08:14:22am
On 7th Aug, 2022 Yoda74 said:
Just bought a GFB Atomic bleed valve. Is this the way to go now: ? Disconnect the ecu, lose the boost solenoid, block the tube that goes to the ecu, block th tube that goes to the solenoid? Place the bleed valve in the tube that comes from the wastegate and start with it shut? Than open it up gradually untill the wanted boost is reached. (9psi or now) Am I missing something or doing something wrong? Cheers The waste gate actuator and solenoid valve lines are the same line Own the day
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3588 Posts Member #: 655 Post Whore Northern Ireland |
7th Aug, 2022 at 09:11:18am
On 7th Aug, 2022 Yoda74 said:
Just bought a GFB Atomic bleed valve. Is this the way to go now: ? Disconnect the ecu, lose the boost solenoid, block the tube that goes to the ecu, block th tube that goes to the solenoid? Place the bleed valve in the tube that comes from the wastegate and start with it shut? Than open it up gradually untill the wanted boost is reached. (9psi or now) Am I missing something or doing something wrong? Cheers Depends what you want to do. Either connect as per manufacturers instructions, or as described earlier in the thread retaining the basic factory electronic controls. 9.85 @ 145mph
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114 Posts Member #: 11728 Advanced Member Uden, Holland |
7th Aug, 2022 at 12:21:33pm
On 7th Aug, 2022 Mr Joshua said:
The waste gate actuator and solenoid valve lines are the same line But the line from the wastegate actuator goes to the solenoid now and stops there? The line from the plenum to the fuelpressure regulator, has now 2 tees, one to the ecu and one to the boost gauge. Should I use the T that now goes to the ecu as line from to the Bleed valve? 
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114 Posts Member #: 11728 Advanced Member Uden, Holland |
8th Aug, 2022 at 07:15:30pm
Dived a bit deeper into the bleed valve knowhow.
Edited by Yoda74 on 8th Aug, 2022. |
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