Specialist Components 5 Port Kit for A-Series
Turbo Mini Forums

Hi Everyone,

A bit far for me to go have a look and play with this so am hoping that some of you can advise me.
I have searched and read (almost ALL day) and couldnt really find THAT much on the setup.

So, here is the thing, I am >-< close to buying the SC 5 port kit (TB, trigger wheel kit, the Typhoon ECU) etc.

I currently have a 1132 Turbo (intercooled) blow through setup, Megajolt, etc.

So, I need to make a custom plenum... thats fine...

Anyone used the 5 port SC kit? My other option is Jenvey throttle body and injectors and the Megasquirt... but I want to be able to bolt it all on fairly simply...

The plan is the cam will be changed from whats in it now, all tuned and end up running 20+ psi boost.

The car already runs like a dream but is VERY VERY VERY unstable based on weather - ie/ barometric pressure and the HIF44 are not playing nicely together...

Any advice? Tips? Issues?
I am happy to run TBI and not MPI type setup... the outer cylinder lean and inner rich issue is going to be the same crap wether its carb or injected.

What I really want and why I want injection is
1. I dont like the fuel smell and the issues with carb (replacing the bushes, la la la)
2. I dont want to muck about with needles, dashpot oil, springs, etc anymore
3. I want to be able to get smooth running out of EFI
4. I want a bit more control (albeit via computer) to tune - fuel ,etc
5. I want the first small-bore A-series Injected Intercooled Turbo in Australia :)
6. I just want EFI

Cheers,
Peter

1132cc Turbo ~120 bananas ATW - Fun Fun Fun

Im not sure if anyone has turboed it before so why not try it? From what i gather its a efi carb sort of setup with a wet manifold instead of individual ports like paul s.
Have you spoken to sc for some more info? Never know you could be a development car for them as i dont think they have run 5port efi t either

Drives
-Ford S-max Mk2 Ecoboost
-Rover 100 VVC #2 - track project

Searching is all you need on TurboMinis

I run a 998 turbo with the SC EFI kit. I'm still fine tuning and as with all things it has its own quirks. It is an improvement over the carb, for simplicity of alterations.

Fastest 998 mini in the world? 13.05 1/4 mile 106mph

www.twin-turbo.co.uk

Far, far too risky at 20 psi in my opinion.

The SC kit, or any wet manifold kit, will not provide safe fuel distribution at that boost.

Wil's engine is running less than 10 psi boost, yet exhibits quite a wide range of fuel distribution on the inner and outer cylinders.

By all means try it, but be aware of the risks.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Ohh, didn't spot 20psi. I agree with Paul, too big a risk for this level of boost.

I actually run 12psi, but generally 5psi. I'm not running close to det, so can accept the outside cylinders running lean(ish). But at 20psi you won't have the amount of margin for error.

Fastest 998 mini in the world? 13.05 1/4 mile 106mph

www.twin-turbo.co.uk

pristic i bought a kit. i have been bolting mine up today :)

Isn't yours on a suck-thru charger though Nick?

If something is worth doing, it's worth doing half of.

Wait so you guys are saying EFI vs Carb - the carb is safer? I thought risk for leaning out the outer 2 cylinders was the same in both setups...

1132cc Turbo ~120 bananas ATW - Fun Fun Fun

Not strictly true.

Carb meters fuel in a contant atomised mix so the mix distribution will be close than an EFI setup where the fuel comes in slugs for each cycle.

Someone can explain this better than I can however.

If something is worth doing, it's worth doing half of.

Carb will be safer and give more power than a wet manifold setup.

You'll need port injection to get as good as the carb, possibly better.

EDIT: Page 4/5 of the build guide explains it better:

http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.php?p=vt&tid=408438

Edited by Paul S on 1st Nov, 2011.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Thanks Paul

If something is worth doing, it's worth doing half of.

yes it is. i was just showing off i have one i would dare say the first in australia lol.

Edited by NickG on 1st Nov, 2011.

Wil/Paul/ So wait, you are saying I need port injection to make any more power and be able to inject it properly (I know this is covered elsewhere on the forum but hey... )

Can I not do sequential injection with the SC setup?

Its currently running 15psi boost, and yes the goal is around 20psi when all sorted.

Are you saying better to get MS + Extra Code over Typhoon ECU?
If I do that, are there 'kits' complete, ie, loom, TB, injectors, etc or is it all built in components and I have to basically built my own setup?

If currently its not running as best as it could be - pretty much due to fuel issues (wont tune due to needle, sticking this, leaking that, different oils, springs, endless SU issues...

Then I can only guess that running an off the shelf (then tuned) setup like the SC kit would improve both performance and drivabilty - or am I smoking the peace pipe here?

Open to suggestion - happy to be a 'pilot' but if people turn around and say "wont work because of z, y and z - here is why or we have tried it... " well ... you know.

Also, does that mean you are limited to <10psi Wil?? I know the SC TB can handle >25psi plus - but its obviously not the same for an A-series I guess...

Pete

Edited by pristic on 1st Nov, 2011.

1132cc Turbo ~120 bananas ATW - Fun Fun Fun

Nick - So you bolt up today, and take first in Aus?? With all due respect - you prick! lol

Ok, PM me mate, we need to talk - where in Aus, who's tuning it, etc.

Edited by pristic on 1st Nov, 2011.

1132cc Turbo ~120 bananas ATW - Fun Fun Fun

lol im ausmini as well, but yes been bolting it up today but still in the middle of putting the car together, should have it running soonish. ill pm you.

I have run 15psi for short periods of time, no evidence of any det. My worry is that as you up the boost you get closer to regions of det. A 1 or 2 differance in AFR between inner and outers is no concern when you are not close to det, but it is when you are.

Grahame Harvey has run 17psi on his 998 (160 bananas) with wet manifold and Emerald ECU, not sure of the firing sequence, but I presume 4 per cycle as we all use.

I'm not saying it can't be done, just that there is a risk to it. I chose the setup knowing that it was not for massive power or boost.

Until someone fits dual widebands with a wet manifold, we will never know fro sure. Maybe you could pioneer this?

Fastest 998 mini in the world? 13.05 1/4 mile 106mph

www.twin-turbo.co.uk

Done - ill pioneer it, what O2 sensors are you guys finding works best? Can I take the input from both O2 sensors and log in Typhoon S/W ? If so, not an issue...

Just for the record, this motor is a bit freaky ... the last dyno day the operator stopped and checked if I wanted him to keep going as the AFR on boost was off the charts - "Yeah mate, take her to 8000" ;( no det nothing... the ignition map is ridiculous too I think but thats what she wants.

OK, so the answer is "can be done, buyer beware due to siamese port"

Done, someone guide me (give me the 101 version - full basic so I dont invent my own way) for the O2 sensors (dual) and we go from there.

Peter

1132cc Turbo ~120 bananas ATW - Fun Fun Fun

First, as above, a carb will theoretically be better than EFi on a wet manifold setup (for the reasons stated). But there is a trade off in terms of the EFi being far easier to adjust, and remain as set etc.

But you need port injection if you want to be able to vary the inner/outer AFRs and port injection that is both sequential and can be timed specifically to coincide with valve opennings.

Whilst the SC unit is a very nice bit of kit and can do virtually anything (ie, sequential) I don't think it has equivilant code to individually time short duration pulses like the MS2-Extra code (siamese) was specifically written to do.

You will have to ask JohnK that one.

But even if it does, the real issue is being able to measure the AFRs.

If you don't fit twin widebands and choose to just fit one in the common exhaust, it doesn't matter whether you use a carb, use EFi, or just pour the fuel in with a bucket - you won't know what your AFR spread is until a piston fails.

So my suggestion would be, before you weigh up the pros and cons of different ECUs and carbs, decide if you going to measure the resultant AFRs individually.

It's easy to fit twin widebands to a normally aspirated or supercharged engine, not so easy on a turbocharged one.

EDIT - typed before the above two posts so out of sequence.....

Edited by Rod S on 1st Nov, 2011.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Hang on - fitting the O2 on the exhaust pre-turbo or the inlet??

1132cc Turbo ~120 bananas ATW - Fun Fun Fun

FYI Grieg Malue and Graham Russell will undoubtably be working on this with me, ill get to a point, call them and take the car there - and say "heeeeeelp!" so if I dont necessarily understand something I am sure they will - carry on lads, talk to me about the O2 setup issues/idea please.

1132cc Turbo ~120 bananas ATW - Fun Fun Fun

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

ok got it, ill work on something

1132cc Turbo ~120 bananas ATW - Fun Fun Fun

You will have to ask JohnK that one.



i thought a few knowledgable folk on here did already , hence him throwing his dummy out .

carl

WWW.FORCE-RACING.CO.UK PLEASE CLICK HERE

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

You just took the words out of my mouth Rod - in a way.
I will first test it with EGT instead of sampling the exhaust and running remote O2 sensors... will see what happens - the goal is still to run 2 x O2 sensors similar to your pics, etc.

Well, its done, the kit is ordered. Need to make a custom plenum now...

Hmmm, actually - Wil or anyone else who has gone this route - how did you design the plenum? If anyone has pics (only an EFI arrangement please - I would like to see)

Cheers,
Peter

1132cc Turbo ~120 bananas ATW - Fun Fun Fun