Turbo Build Mk1. None of the gear, no idea
Turbo Mini Forums

Righty ho!

So for the past year or so i'v had this pie in the sky idea that i'm going to turbocharge the mini one day - but my dreams have always been hindered by uni, student debt and the 'rents telling me I don't have a clue what im talking about and the insurance is going to go through the roof.

I'v always taken their advice, and was still listening to it until about 3 days ago when the revision for my uni finals (in a month and a half ) got MAJORLY boring. Onto ebay and bought a metty turbo engine

Now, its in a fetching shade of baby blue but from what i can tell, its in decent nick. Bores look to be in good shape. Gearbox is in good condition the seller also said the head has had some work done to it but from what I can see and determine - its a bog standard 12G940 with single valve springs with no mods at all lol

It didnt come with a turbo, clutch bits, rocker gear or the general ancillaries - not a major problems as all the externals were going to be replaced anyways, and im opting to use either a GT17 turbo & Matty minifold or T2 on mirage manifolds - dont want to have to cut the bulkhead and face an IVA.

The plan is thus:

Keep the engine as a 1275 unless the bores turn out to be scored and worn
Use all re-useable gear such as pistons, crank, camshaft, 'box, etc etc
Replace all bits that get worn - bearings, cam followers etc etc
Upgrade all parts that wont be up to the job - clutch & diff
Better rocker gear - 1.3 roller rockers?
Source a GT17 + custom manifold from Matty on Turbominis
Small(ish) intercooler
Lower the CR a bit for some extra boost by opening up the chambers - TurboPhil or Benross. (ideas what the standard CR of the metro turbo engine was?)

Thus, Robert is your mothers brother and Dave is a happy lad!

Now, I'v had some advice given to me by Benross that the clutch and diff need upgrading to deal with the power, but theres loads of different clutch parts which all look the same to me (never touched an engine before so need some help here).

Apparently a grey clutch diaphragm is what i need as well as a better diff. Can someone please confirm these parts below are good for the job:

New pressure plate
http://www.minispares.com/Product.aspx?ty=pb&pid=37325

Grey Diaphragm
http://www.minispares.com/Product.aspx?ty=...id=34696&title=

Clutch Plate
http://www.minispares.com/Product.aspx?ty=...id=38317&title=

Does that all seem ok? The car is going to be used as a daily driver so i ideally want a car thats going to be easy to use and not harsh under foot.

Whats the difference between verto and non verto too by the way? Should i be using one or the other?

Heres some pictures

Its blue to keep it cool yeah!


Head


Rusty internals - no obvious mods to my eyes


Housing






Diff


Inlet manifold and half a carb


Bore 1


Bore 2


Bore 3


Bore 4


All the marks on the bores are dust stuck on old oil from what i can tell rather than any scoring or gouging and can be removed with a finger

I could be wrong, but those pistons look like they are flat topped to me, no Metro turbo engine ever came with flat top pistons.

Given the amount of crap down the bores I would suggest as a minimum you split it and get the pistons out to clean and really have the bores honed and new piston rings.

Agree with Tom, I would strip it and have it re honed, the pistons don't look like turbo ones to me.. If it's a turbo head i think the valves should be a specific size - can't remember what tho, but a quick search should be able to tell you.

Also I don't think you need worry about this.

Edited by MarkGTT on 18th Apr, 2011.

Looks like a boggo lump to me fella. What numbers are on the tops of the pistons?

If something is worth doing, it's worth doing half of.

I'll have a look at the pistons tomorrow.

I'll be having serious words with the seller if it turns out its not a turbo, or i could just suck it up and crack on with new pistons etc.

Yeah, the plan is to strip it all and replace piston rings, get everything clean and spic and span.

Out of interest, whats the cost give or take of getting the block honed and possibly bored?

Edited by carts60 on 18th Apr, 2011.

yeah, check the pitons for numbers on the tops,

also check the valve stems to see if they are different diameters, and pull the engine off the box and look for numbers on the crank.

Are you shitting me! I'v just spent about 40 minutes getting the block back in the box!

I knew engines were heavy but actually picking up the first one, I realised how heavy they really are - especially with no engine crane etc etc

I will definitely check pistons, & valve stem sizes tomorrow though. Crank if i can get my dad and brother in on the act to lend a bit of 'muscle'

Mark, whats this IVA you speak of?

Doesn't look like a turbo nose bearing on the input gear either. Also if I am not mistaken that is an N/A carb.

If something is worth doing, it's worth doing half of.

clutch wise youre looking at the right bits for the job,

most people run the grey pressure plate in a turbo, its a bit heavy under foot but it gets the job done, its ok on the road, but traffic will be a chore,

for turbo power for the above style of clutch there is the orange, grey, and double grey plates, as a rough idea the orange is good for 120-140 hp, the grey 160-180 hp and the grey 200-220hp, trouble is the strengths seem to vary a bit, beware of the double grey as with strong clutches you start seeing the crank thrust bearings get over loaded and fail

the verto is a different design and there are no off the shelf pressure plates for much over 120hp, however some people have taken to pulling them apart and stacking two springs in so they will handle 220hp+ the reason they do this is the verto clutch puts less pressure on the crank thrust bearings for the same clutch strength.

Fucking eBay. You really need to be careful.

People will slap a tin of paint on any old junk and sell at inflated prices.

How much did you pay for it?

In the 13's at last!.. Just

The lesson here is never buy a metro turbo engine.

1) because there is no point
2) they are all 20+ years old and knackered
3) Most of then on ebay are not turbo engines (case in point)

It looks like a POS badly covered in paint.

Fastest 998 mini in the world? 13.05 1/4 mile 106mph

www.twin-turbo.co.uk

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Ill put pound to a penny thats an unleaded head.

1/4 Mile 14.3secs 96Mph Terminal 10psi of boost.


Fibreglass Parts? - http://www.tdkracing.co.uk/
Split Rims? - http://www.force-racing.co.uk/

And on the 7th day........... God created turbochargers!

On 19th Apr, 2011 nutter driver said:

On 18th Apr, 2011 Rod S said:

On 18th Apr, 2011 carts60 said:
- dont want to have to cut the bulkhead and face an IVA.

A myth from another forum - read the MOT testers manual instead of ***.

Nothing mythical about it, modify the moncoque and you are in IVA teritory. People like the Association of Car Enthusiasts (ACE) are currently trying to work with the relevent government bodies to stop small changes like we do (cutting bulkheads, tubbing arches etc) from requiring it, but as the letter of the law stands at the moment, fit a bulkhead box, then to be completely legal, its IVA time........ Which of course a mini wouldnt pass, at least not without a lot of work.....

Please bear in mind, that this has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not your vehicle will pass an mot, so im really not too sure how reading the MOT testers manual will help?!?!?

Pete

Fastest 998 mini in the world? 13.05 1/4 mile 106mph

www.twin-turbo.co.uk

IVA wise - for the sake of buying a different manifold to avoid all the ambiguities and cost of a possible IVA, i'd rather not chance it, or debate the intricacies of it.

Now, further pictures as requested. Couldn't get any crank details as Im home alone and the blocks too heavy to take off on my tod - im hardly Mr. Muscle.

I did however manage to get the engine number, measure the valve stems and get piston numbers:

Engine casting (not sure if it has any relevance to anything??)



Stamped engine number



DISHED Pistons!!!! All have the same markings - 21963 STD and a big A stamped on them.





I dont have any tech measuring tools so using my trusty ruler, the valve stems all measure 6mm from what i can tell.


What does any of this mean? Hopefully its good(ish) news?!?

They are not turbo pistons, doesn't sound like it is a turbo head either.

How much did you pay for this paint drenched article?

Brilliant news :(

Im reserving the right to say what i payed for fear of making myself making look like more of a plonker than iv already done. It wasnt outrageous though

If not turbo pistons, what are they? Aren't dished ones would counter productive for a N/A engine in terms of CR?

Edited by carts60 on 19th Apr, 2011.

Having just looked on mini spares, the pistons are standard pistons for 1275 engine from 1990 on - thus not turbo.

I will be requesting a refund or a fair wadge of cash back from the seller then cracking on with a REAL turbo engine.

We all learn from our mistakes - even the expensive ones

Someone console me please

Edited by carts60 on 19th Apr, 2011.

Just searched the piston number on here and it said cooper A+ pistons, so if thats the matching head then the previous coments about it being an unleaded head would be right.

I cant do a link to the tread as im on my phone at the mo.

one day boost will be mine!

Just open a case and say the item wasn't like described :)

On 19th Apr, 2011 carts60 said:
Someone console me please

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Google the engine number, lots of sites will tell you that it's a post 89 unleaded MG Metro engine. The carb does look like a turbo one to me as it doesn't have the fuel overflow.

I don't understand why people want to start with an Metro Turbo engine anyway, there is always a very good chance that one is going to need rebuilding and most of the differences are not necessary, unless you are looking for standard power you will do a lot better starting with a NA 1275 and building it to your spec. It would probably be cheaper anyway.