CNP Testing
Turbo Mini Forums

We are going to test a couple of sequential ECUs on the 998Ti, but first we need to fit the CNPs.

They only just fit under the bonnet. Also had to relocate the dump valve.



I'm not particularly happy with the HT leads fouling the intercooler and pipework, but this is just a temporary installation, the final installs will be clear.

The plan is to get the ECUs basically setup and proven so that we do not have too much faffing about trying to start the fresh engines.

Just need to fit and connect up a loom to the ECU and we can have a play.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

so impressed with all the stuff you come up with paul.

At this rate you'll have a book out on forced injection :)

Is there a reason for doing this? Does it give a control advantage, or are you doing it because you can?

http://www.twin-turbo.co.uk
http://www.hillclimbandsprint.co.uk/default.asp

A man without a project is like a like a woman without a shopping list.

The reasons are many:

I don't believe that a coil pack from a 1.3 Fiesta is good enough to make the most out of a highly boosted engine. Time we tested something else.

One of the ECUs I'm testing does not have high current ignition drivers, so I don't have the option of using the wasted spark coils without an extra box of tricks.

This also has the advantage that you keep all the high currents away from the processor.

These coils are considered to be the best OEM coils available.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Temporary loom ready to be fitted in car alongside the standard MS loom.



The green wire is for the cam sensor and the blue wire for the second O2. Both need to be transfered to the MS3X. It should be fairly straightforward to swap between ECUs.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

9.85 @ 145mph
202mph standing mile
speed didn't kill me, but taxation probably will

excellent work chaps !

where did you source your black silicone pipe from

Oh...and those bulky hose clamps tend to leak a lot.

I would never use them on a turbo setup. The banding where the gap is on the clamp is far too thick and never seals correctly as there is a big step.

9.85 @ 145mph
202mph standing mile
speed didn't kill me, but taxation probably will

The hoses are standard ebay stuff:

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Auto-Performance-...sid=p4340.l2563

I know what you mean about the hoses not sealing Stevie, you need to use the exact size joiner and clamps, but as far as I am aware from several rolling road sesssions, mine are well sealed.

In fact it was very difficult to get them apart to move the dump valve.

I've just realised that from the photo above, that one of the clamps is still loose :$

Edited by Paul S on 26th Mar, 2011.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Thin banded t-bolt clamps are needed. Or Breeze make some decent hose clamps.

But for the most part, a decent stainless worm drive with a wide band is all most cars need.

Ive tested a lot of setups with those style Mikalor, they all leaked.
Some you could even slip a feeler blade in under the silicone they were that bad

9.85 @ 145mph
202mph standing mile
speed didn't kill me, but taxation probably will

Runs like a dream:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2r0YPU7_UE8

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Great work Paul, engine bays starting to look like a modern production car

1972 998 TURBO SLEEPER

I'll take that as a compliment.

Yes, if the rocker cover was black, then you would need a double take to be sure that it was an A Series.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

just put a big black plastic cover over everything, it'll look just like every other modern engine then!

And tidy up the wiring!

It's a right snake pit now with two sets of wires for coils and injectors.

Still, the car is only a test bed these days.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

bloody hell paul i am impressed with your dedication to the 5 port injection cause but at some point the development costs must outway the benefits, this car must have cost a small fortune now.

I think a small fortune would be optimistic Wolfie. I bet they have spent more! lol

If something is worth doing, it's worth doing half of.

It's just small change :)

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Yep especially on Bill Oddies Salary

If something is worth doing, it's worth doing half of.

Come on guys, this is my budget 998 Turbo with a budget injection system.

I've not spent any money on it since 2009. This is a trial of parts "borrowed" from other projects. Total expenditure on this car... a few hours work.

It's not 5 Port specific either.

Now if I had spent £2-3k on a well marketed fashion accessory like a 7 Port, then you would have cause :)

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Just a bit of rib tickling Paul. Have muchos respect and interest in what you are doing.

If something is worth doing, it's worth doing half of.

Nonetheless, the perception seems to be that building a 5-port EFI engine requires a huge investment. Compared to a 7-port or twin cam, it's not much. The EFi part is the same (or cheaper when compared to using a big name ECU) and the head is "free" which is not the case for the 7-port or twin cam. There is a need to have one more WBO2 sensor which does add to the EFi cost.

The main thing is making the intake and exhaust manifolds (and even then the exhaust is the same for other engines). While this is not trivial for many, Paul has shown that it is possible to have something that will yield very good efficiency. While in theory, other setups could be better, it seems no one will go to the trouble of doing it or packaging constraints will prevent them from doing it.

So in my view (and obviously Paul's), the benefits outweigh the costs since it may yield better efficiency and power at a lower cost. That still remains to be seen but it's looking good at this point and Paul's efforts (and others) will benefit others who will have an easier time making their own version.

Jean

http://www.jbperf.com/

You're right there Jean,

The ECU kit and loom cost £375 plus VAT/Duty and the coils cost about £100.

Probably less than most spend on the ECU alone.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

595 pounds ?

oops ,plus 1 extra wideband 140 ?

so 735 pounds. ish .

Edited by robert on 28th Mar, 2011.

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM