Individually mappable and sequential injection?
Turbo Mini Forums

Does this offer a potential way forward over charge stealing?

http://www.megamanual.com/router/index.htm

If I've read it right (and if it's ever available) it would allow you to configure two individual and independant injection pulses for each port which could be optimised for each of the valves' openning periods - or have I completely misunderstood the problem ???

Rod.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

It would do the job, however, it has been promised for some time now.

I believe Jean is working on semi sequential software for Megasquirt that can be applied to any four cylinder engine and will go a long way to meeting our needs.

In the meantime there is the Siamesed Port code for Megasquirt that I hope to test in the next few months.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Thanks Paul,

I've only just started "researching" this very recently so I wasn't aware that this solution has been promised for some time !!!

I've read all the threads by Jean and others over potential solutions for Megasquirt (inc. the siamesed port code) but, unless I'm missing something, I thought the problem with Megasquirt is that, in its current hardware form, it is essentially designed for batch injection (with only two injector drive outputs) and has no cam sensor (ie, cylinder specific) input.
I'm probably wrong, but still learning...

My timeline is mid 2008 (rebuild shell first including bulkhead box, but N/A MG lump first to get suspension etc. sorted, then turbo lump later in the year). I'm just so tempted to buy the basic Megasquirt in kit form now (dollar rate being what it is, I'll import from USA) but I'm torn between it and VEMS (another story...)

Rod.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Hi,
You're right in that it does only have 2 injector drivers, but the Software Jean has created does get round this problem we hope :)
I believe Paul maybe the first to test it as he's been asking questions about wiring injectors recently
Cheers,
Gavin :)

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If you want to go for sequential siamese port injection and all the other problems that go with it, go with Megasquirt, Or, CANEMS. Otherwise, go for VEMS.

Unbiased

Hi,
Sprox, you like winding Paul up
Cheers,
Gavin :)

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Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

On 29th of Dec, 2007 at 11:14pm Sprocket said:

On 29th of Dec, 2007 at 10:26pm Bat said:
Hi,
Sprox, you like winding Paul up
Cheers,
Gavin :)

Nothing to do with winding anyone up

Edited by Bat on 29th Dec, 2007.

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Hi,
Looking foward to finding out how the squirt performs :)
Cheers,
Gavin :)

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Thanks for the explanation Paul, that makes more sense than the way I had been reading it from earlier threads.

In fairness to Sprocket I have also been looking at VEMS (I've seen some of the threads from Sprocket and Jean on the VEMS bulletin board) but I can't see how it handles the problem any better..
As far as I can see, despite it being (or allowing) sequential, it doesn't seem to allow individual maps per injector so the timing is symettric (or have I got that wrong?).
Do you just use large injectors/short duration and avoid the overlap period on the siamesed valves or am I missing something more obvious again ???

My original though was that if the Megasquirt module (that allows individual mapping) does become available in the near future, it could fit in with my timescales so I might give it a go, but I'm obviously very interested to hear how the siamese code works on the plain Megasquirt....

Rod.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Hi,
As far as I know the VEMS can't currently do port injection on the A Series, but you can apply to the developers for the code to modify it for port injection.
If this was done I think the VEMS would be a better hardware solution, but as yet isn't capable of doing the job :(
Cheers,
Gavin :)

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VEMS main selling point is that it includes the wideband controller, so it saves some cash.

However, you need to calibrate the wideband sensor regularly, particularly on turbo-charged cars. With VEMS this involves hooking up the laptop, whereas a seperate system, like the Innovate LC-1, just involves pressing a button.

I would also be interested to know how you hook up an AFR gauge with the VEMS setup.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Lambda is displayed second row left on the display module. This is the raw data, rather that what Megatune displays, which would you believe, is different , sometimes by 0.02 lambda.


An AFR gauge gives a visual indication of AFR and can supply a non wideband ECU with a 0 - 5v signal for the AFR target. The ECU itself doesnt actualy know the AFR. The way i understand it is that the fueling still works like old narrow band sensors.

An other ECU worth a look at with Wideband Lambda is the Cyclone from Specialist Components. This does not as of yet support the siamese sequential injection, but is a very neatly packaged controller with many of the same features of the VEMS. What it lacks against the VEMS is more than made up for with the added features of traction control. I would liked to have seen at least four ignition channels though as this would alow for coil on plug instalations, but im sure thats just down to further development like anything is.

The only thing preventing VEMS from running siamese sequential port injection is the Firmware. I have had lengthy discussions with the development team, it is aparantly fairly easy to do and would probibly take about a day of coding, but there are other more important areas that need the development, aparently. There is also the fear that some one is going to damage their engine with code written by VEMS, leaving them open to legal action. A bit severe you may think, but there are people out there who would! As for getting permission to access the code, that, is apparently long gone. Some one copied the wideband code and is now manufacturing a product directly competing against the VEMS AFR gauge, its all gone legal and has been for some time. Hence why everything is locked down. Copy right infringements. Dont think that the same copyrights do not apply to Megasquirt, they do, its just that there isnt much code worth copying (no disrespect) and Bowling & Grippo dont appear to be enforcing their rights.

If you want to go with siamese sequential port injection, thre are two options. Megasquirt or CANEMS. that is the bottom line. Forget VEMS in this case, I gave up pushing the development team, As I now have other things to concentrate on such as eight port full sequential injection and full sequential coil on plug ignition. Bye Bye five port

On 29th of Dec, 2007 at 10:26pm Bat said:
Hi,
Sprox, you like winding Paul up
Cheers,
Gavin :)

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Hi,
I thought it was a once only job, I don't actually know!
EDIT .. Just looked at the SC ECU, gets a bit expensive when you've got to buy their loom £250 - £350!
Cheers,
Gavin :)

Edited by Bat on 30th Dec, 2007.

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My understanding was also that access to the VEMS source code was long gone for political reasons (and understandable ones) and also that Megasquirt isn't actually declared as "open source" (although effectively it still is) but.....
Back to the point, does this mean that, although sequential, there is no TECHNICAL benefit from VEMS on a 5 port (as the injectors can't be mapped for timing individually) and its simply down to add-on cost and wideband ???

I'm not out to start a war here !!! but am genuinely interested, especially in whether the "siamese code" will work on current Megasquirt and whether their "imminent" router board (or MS II Sequencer) will provide a 5 port answer.

Rod.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

An explanation of the need for re-calibrating:

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/forums/...read.php?t=1627

And more:

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/forums/...read.php?t=2463

It is very likely that your VW dealer carries out the calibration during services.

EDIT: As Sprocket has suggested I've linked rather than copied.

Edited by Paul S on 30th Dec, 2007.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

FFS, no one is trodding on any ones feet, if anyones got any problem with any thing its you Paul, hanging on to what ever issue you have with the world. Lighten up, yin and yang and all that, get over it.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Ooops, Ive done it again..... (too slow in posting...)

So, Sprocket, in your opinion, is there a 5 port solution with VEMS with the code being "closed down" ???

Rod.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Ooops, Ive done it again..... (too slow in posting...)

So, Sprocket, in your opinion, is there a 5 port solution with VEMS with the code being "closed down" ???

Rod.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."