Bench testing the siamese code *** Updated code
Turbo Mini Forums

I have been bench testing the siamese code and things are looking pretty good. As I said in the other thread, my oscilloscope stopped working so I found a replacement that's good enough for some testing. I'm using a PC sound card scope using freeware, a couple of resistors, a couple of potentiometers, and some wires.

From the tests, I can say that the injection timing is actually working albeit with a small inaccuracy when injecting close to a tooth trigger. I have also verified that staging (standard MS2/extra feature) still works. I still need to verify that I haven't broken anything in the ignition part but that shouldn't be.

At the moment the code works with a 36-1 wheel (same as EDIS setup) and supports wasted spark (to be verified). It may or may not support other combinations but I haven't tested them and I haven't made sure the code would be compatible with them. The other MS2/extra features should all be available but again I haven't verified if anything is broken.

As I mentioned, there will be a need for more bench testing and I can't do it all so if you want to use the code, you should plan to have a bench test setup. In any case, you'll need a minimal setup to build the MS and to diagnose any issue with your setup. Diagnosing a malfunctioning unit in the car is quite messy and very difficult to assess if a fault is coming from the ECU or the rest of the installation. This is even more the case with experimental code which this still is and will be for quite some time if the number of installations remains low.

If you want the code, let me know and I'll send it to you. As it is now, I think that it would be able to run a car so that is also an option but I cannot guarantee the results.

Jean

Edited by jbelanger on 16th Feb, 2007.

http://www.jbperf.com/

Hi,
Congratulations! This is great news!
I take it from the fact this is based on extra code that you don't need to use an EDIS module?
I take it you'll need a cam sensor too?
Cheers,
Gavin :)

VEMs Authorised Installer / Re-seller. K head kits now available!

WB/EGT gauges. Click here for customers write-up

Visit www.doyouneedabrain.co.uk

My Mini build diary

Jean,

top job my friend.

At the moment I only have MS1's (on V2.2 boards) available but I hope to have an MS2 (on V3) shortly. I have all the kit for testing (my work is developing diesel fuel injection control stratergy!!) and would be up for testing in car two (lets face it .... can't make my 1380 run any lumpier ...LOL)

Just a question to people generally, what inlet manifolds are you planning on using? Mpi will probably do for NA but maybe need a bit more juice for blow applications.
Does anybody make a tubular steel version that we could double boss?

Every day is a school day ...........

How fast and how expensive ...... the same question...

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

i was thinking about this the other night,

would it be possible for testing purposes to get a manifold 3D printed in plastic?

Fair enough it may not last too long especially as it's close to the exhaust, but maybe long enough?

http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.php?a=postreply

opps!
Funny you should say that!

We have developed a number of diff manifis for the A Series, and our throttle body projects... However these are all not really saleable, and some are private commissions, and would not like to tread on any more toes!

If you would like to supply a drawing, or if you really want to a CAD model, would be pleased to give you a quote.

To help the project along, there would be no development charge.

Suggest we do a weldment ver, so you can check that most of the things, are in roughly in the right place, and if there are any mods, we can do them simply, and when everyone is happy
we can knock half a doz castings off.

Luckily a pal makes inlet manif, and we have access to a 5 axis machining centre, so patt equip (tooling) would not be a problem.

One project that we investigated was the incorporation of TB’s, in to the rocker cover, and rocker gear but we was only paid for the layout, so it never went any further, however it did incorporate coil on plug

Hope this is some help

http://www.jbperf.com/

For testing purposes, I think that an SU manifold with injector pockets as close to the head as possible and an SU as the throttle body would suffice.

I wonder if you could even set it up so that in case of injection/ECU failure you could just disconnect the injectors and use the carb for a limp home mode.

But I agree that a new manifold design is needed and some proposals given on other threads here look quite interesting. One of the things to keep in mind is that you will likely need staged injectors with a high power turbo engine so think about injector placement so that the injectors are not aimed at one cylinder more than the other. I'm not sure I'm clear but let me know if I need to elaborate.

Jean

http://www.jbperf.com/

Why not have two injectors in each port.
one aimied at the outside cylinder, and one at the inside cylinder.

Mount them in a spherical bearing, so that you can change the position, a few degrees, if you feel you need to tweak, like Brabham did.

http://www.jbperf.com/

http://www.jbperf.com/

Thanks for the explanation.

Thought it would mean two diffent sizes, and also perhaps two diffent positions...

I suppose untill some one builds a manifold and starts to test, and generate some data..

Interesting stuff on the manifolds.

Probably the best thing is to stay with the Rover MPI, as this could be used to establish a base line.

After all they did make a few of them, and it will mean at least you have a constant.

Once the development is under way the first thing would be to exceed the performance, (emmissions, power, and economy), of the Rover.

After this point is reached, you then know that the code, and the rest of the system work, and that more power will only come when the induction system is improoved.

This would be the correct time to look at new manifold design.

Hi,
Looks like I'd better get that complete MPi engine out of the garage and into my car
I liked this bit, said in a Jeremy Clarkson style ...

Edited by Bat on 11th Feb, 2007.

VEMs Authorised Installer / Re-seller. K head kits now available!

WB/EGT gauges. Click here for customers write-up

Visit www.doyouneedabrain.co.uk

My Mini build diary

its so tempting to build up and MS2 and mess around with this!!

Alex

AlexF

http://www.jbperf.com/

what would you consider a "proper" test bench then?

Alex

AlexF

http://www.jbperf.com/

Well I can tick all of those boxes except for a (working) signal gnerator and a stim!

I have used a sound card 36-1 signal generator but its use was limited as to change engine speed you had to load a diffrenent MP3 file. I'd be very interested in your microcontroller!

I did get a friend started on the same thing for me, but he ran out of time/tallent lol.

I guess I ought to break out the soldering iron this week!

Alex

AlexF

Just a quick thought for a cheap 36-1 signal gerneator.

Mount the wheel on a 540 sized motor and use a cheap (can be has for £20) speed controller from a radio controlled car to do the job of controlling speed. The signal the speed controller gets from the reciever is normally a voltage so changing that with a pot world work.

If you want to go even cheaper use a wiper arm over a wire wound resistor (heat sink essential) of a suitable rating to change the voltage to the motor. If you couldn't find a wire wound of a suitable range it's not beyond the wit of man to make one up.

Do well either of these would be capable of giving you everything from just above stall on the motor (about 20 rpm for a basic 540 running 7.2V) upto 10/12 k rpm.

Every day is a school day ...........

How fast and how expensive ...... the same question...

Alex how do you test the MS's you sell if you don't have a stim???

Every day is a school day ...........

How fast and how expensive ...... the same question...

Jean,

I have though about direct inejction on an A-series and I don't think it would be possible. Where / how would you mount the injector? Every bit of space is taken up with ports, water jacket or spark plug. The valve train is in the way for mounting directly at the top of the port (best place).

I am still not personally convinced of direct injection in SI engines. I personally don't think anybody really has the hardware techonolgy down yet.
Also most DI engines are designed with that in mind so there is sufficient space between the valves for the nozzle and sufficient material to sink combustion heat away from the nozzle also.

As for the hardware around me it's all way to big ... would struggle to get four of them under the rocker cover with all the valve train removed ... LOL.

Every day is a school day ...........

How fast and how expensive ...... the same question...

Has anybody done any measurements to give a reasonable idea of port velocities in an A-series inlet through a sensible rev range (say 850 - 7000 rpm)? I am just thinking what information is actually out there to help wiht manifold design. To my mind you have to strike a balance between too close (poolling on valve at some conditions) and too far away (making it more prone to the charge robbing.

Once you have the port velocities you can get a lot closer but my guess is it will still be relative to peak BHP target and intended rev range so making a one-size-fits-all inlet manifold might be tricky.

Every day is a school day ...........

How fast and how expensive ...... the same question...

AlexF